OOTP-server reports

devaneyfan · 06-14-2002, 09:55 PM

The commissioner of our OOTP league has been accused of modifying his team's roster. He stresses that he is not guilty and perhaps another person uploaded a faulty league file.

Our league is on the ootp server. Are there reports that would show IP address or some other identifying information regarding who has uploaded the league .zip file? We would like to make sure these accusations are valid if possible, and this seems like a sure way to do so.

Also, is it possible for a team export file to change things like a player's age, talents, and other ratings? This was another explanation offered for the player changes, but we were unable to do so with a couple tests.

Thanks

Killebrew · 06-14-2002, 11:25 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The commissioner of our OOTP league has been accused of modifying his team's roster. He stresses that he is not guilty and perhaps another person uploaded a faulty league file.<hr /></blockquote>Sorry, how is he suspected of modifying his roster? Talent changes should all be recorded in the team devel pages if that is useful.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Also, is it possible for a team export file to change things like a player's age, talents, and other ratings? This was another explanation offered for the player changes, but we were unable to do so with a couple tests. <hr /></blockquote>No, not possible simply with the roster export files. Even if several GM's besides the commish had the ftp password and uploaded a full new edited league file for everyone else to download, it would be very unlikely that the edits/changes would work. The reason is because the Commish will rarely download the leagues master zip file - he does not need to as he already has that on his local PC

! Any changes to the master league file would simply mean that most of the roster exports he recieved for that sim would not properly import into the Commish's master league file (on his hard drive). All the roster edits/changes would be gone when the next league file is uploaded.

When suspecting anyone of cheating I think it is important to confirm the cheat "symptoms" with someone very knowledgeable about how the game works. I have seen dozens of cheat accusations in online leagues but of all the episodes I have checked out, only one seemed like a probable case of cheating.

Steve Kuffrey · 06-15-2002, 01:59 AM

Killer is right on here, team exports can't change anything but lineups, rotations and switch players between levels(for the most part). Any "talent" changes that the game makes show up in "player development".

devaneyfan · 06-15-2002, 04:30 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Sorry, how is he suspected of modifying his roster? Talent changes should all be recorded in the team devel pages if that is useful. <hr /></blockquote>Here is the account of his cheating: <a href="http://www.ootp-leagues.com/mbs/rwbl/viewthread.php?tid=399" target="_blank"> Braves Player Modifications </a>

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
When suspecting anyone of cheating I think it is important to confirm the cheat "symptoms" with someone very knowledgeable about how the game works. <hr /></blockquote>That is the case. grismosw from this board is one of the people who was involved in this decision. As is another owner who is serving as AL President, although don't know his OOTP screen name he has a lot of OOTP and online league experience. The owner who alerted us to these irregularities also has a lot of game experience.

I'm afraid the entire situation is going to get very messy. I just hoped there was some server report that could substantiate the commissioner's claims that someone else uploaded bogus files. He does claim that he has overwritten his own file on many occasions.

Steve Kuffrey · 06-15-2002, 04:50 AM

I do not know if any such log exists as the server is in Germany. Try contacting andreas@400softwarestudios.com for more info concerning this.

In addition, no matter how you change your roster then export it and then import into the "league file" the changes do not transfer.

Killebrew · 06-15-2002, 09:39 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I'm afraid the entire situation is going to get very messy. I just hoped there was some server report that could substantiate the commissioner's claims that someone else uploaded bogus files. He does claim that he has overwritten his own file on many occasions.<hr /></blockquote>Good luck with that server report. It's hard to think of good reasons for having to over write your master file as Commish. The most likely reason IMO would be simming ahead or test simming, which many leagues frown on anyway.

devaneyfan · 06-15-2002, 10:11 AM

Well our commish decided to delete the thread that accuses him of cheating anyway and the vast majority of original owners are moving on.

I actually requested the server space in my name and then passed the passwords on to him when he took over as commish. It's a shame that many owners used their order IDs to request this space and then were let down.

Are there any standards for commissioner behavior regarding the use of the OOTP space? If not, this is probably a worst case scenario of why there should be.

Steve Kuffrey · 06-15-2002, 10:25 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by devaneyfan:
Well our commish decided to delete the thread that accuses him of cheating anyway and the vast majority of original owners are moving on.

I actually requested the server space in my name and then passed the passwords on to him when he took over as commish. It's a shame that many owners used their order IDs to request this space and then were let down.

Are there any standards for commissioner behavior regarding the use of the OOTP space? If not, this is probably a worst case scenario of why there should be.<hr /></blockquote>Agreed that this is a bad situation, but would really be difficult to "police" behavior. If the owners/GM's used their ID sounds like the league is falling apart, if so let Andreas know and maybe ID's can be used in another league.

ehrie · 06-16-2002, 07:50 AM

Now I don't know about hte guilt or innocence of this guy, but hoi, every league seems to have somoene with an ax to grind. I remember being accused of purposly injuring someone on said complainers team. He went on and on about how this injury would benefit my team yada yada yada and even after I and a few other owners pointed out how I would have had to edit log files, box scores etc etc etc to do something like that and how utterly absurd it was, it still never stops people at a later date of questioning the integrity of the commish. One of the pitfalls with the job I guess. =D

HornsManiac · 06-16-2002, 07:26 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ehrie:
Now I don't know about hte guilt or innocence of this guy, but hoi, every league seems to have somoene with an ax to grind. <hr /></blockquote>I am "that guy" and believe me when I tell you there were many people who had an ax to grind.... a very big ax.

Steve - I am also working with Andreas, so now because of devaneyfan's desire to crush the league Andreas is in a tough situation that requires him to parent to grown men. What devaneyfan needs to do is just leave the league if he is not happy and go find another one to join. Since when does a team owner have the right to overturn the Commish by force? I hope Andreas sees it the same way, because that is clearly what makes the most sense.

Thanks, HornsManiac

devaneyfan · 06-17-2002, 12:33 PM

HornsManiac has now decided to take the server password information and pass it on to an independent person who was never invovled with the league to serve as commish.

The majority of the previous owners already elected a new commish and planned to keep the league going, but the server space has now been handed to a 3rd party which none of the previous owners support.

HornsManiac has not only stabbed the league owners who provided ID's for this web service in the back, but he has also abused the space by turning it over to a completely independent source. This should cleary be against the OOTP server "rules".

I would strongly request that the current rwbl space be eliminated and, if possible, order ID fields in the customer data base can be cleared for everyone who submitted them for this currently hijacked league. At least that way, the guys who truly want to continue this league could attempt to find their own webspace free of either HornsManiac or my invovlement.

Scott Vibert · 06-17-2002, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by devaneyfan
The commissioner of our OOTP league has been accused of modifying his team's roster. He stresses that he is not guilty and perhaps another person uploaded a faulty league file.

Our league is on the ootp server. Are there reports that would show IP address or some other identifying information regarding who has uploaded the league .zip file? We would like to make sure these accusations are valid if possible, and this seems like a sure way to do so.

Also, is it possible for a team export file to change things like a player's age, talents, and other ratings? This was another explanation offered for the player changes, but we were unable to do so with a couple tests.

Thanks

BTW, I believe no member of the league could edit these and then export the changes to the commissioner, because if this was done then the teams exports would not work because the exports would be from a league file that was different than the commissioners.

The only way for changes to show up and allow them to be valid for import would be for the league file used to be the same as the official league file on the commissioners machine. That means in order for someone other than the commissioner to edit something they would have to hack into the league server and put up the edited league file, and then the commissioner would have to download the league file and overwrite his previously valid league file, the same file that was presumably used for the upload. Given that most people would not try and download the same file they had allegedly uploaded again and then overwrite the old file, it would be exceptionally hard for someone other than the commissioner to edit the league file and have the changes show up in the game, especially if all owners lineups imported properly for the sim period...

So to paraphrase it would be pretty hard for the official league file to be hacked and to impact the "official" league file which should have been stored on the commissioner's computer. It's not impossible, but it is highly unlikely. Editing the league file is as previously mentioned the only way to change ages and abilities and for all the changes to impact the game and allow all imports to have worked, it would have had to be done with the "official" league file (after importing all the league's lineups), which presumably was in the commissioners OOTP4/STB2k3 directory.

Edit - Now I could be mistaken here or missing something basic.. if I am, I'm sure someone with more online league experience than I, will jump in and correct me.

Neuqua458 · 06-17-2002, 01:05 PM

I just want to make sure I understand, i was in the league that was before-mentioned and am not interested in participating with the new commish whom was brought out of no where.

I think my Order ID may have been used, and so i would have to email that andreas guy and explain the situation to him to get my ID back?

Thanks in advance for the help.

HornsManiac · 06-17-2002, 01:08 PM

HornsManiac has owners in the league who are ready to move forward with the action.

HornsManiac was and still is the commissioner of the league.

HornsManiac founded the league, named the league, and took over as Commissioner to prevent the league's death after said devaneyfan abandoned the league without notice and left the league to die. Clearly, he is not very concerned about the future of RWBL. What he is really concerned about is the future of his league which is using a portion of RWBL's server space at this time. He has been asked many times to remove his data from RWBL's registered server space, but refuses to do so. Is there any rules that prevent him doing that?

HornsManiac is working with another guy and fellow fan of OOTP who is assisting him in recruiting more members. HornsManiac had to use him and his name because the actions of devaneyfan have severely damaged the credibility of HornsManiac's own name.

HornsManiac has no problems with owners leaving the league if they feel they must. That is their right, of course. HornsManiac also does not have any problem with OOTP Leagues returning the game ID numbers to the guys who are leaving the league as long as his league stays in tact on the current server space with reset passwords to the server and message board.

HornsManiac has not been proven guilty of any wrongdoing. Frankly the said devaneyfan himself could have just as easily performed the actions of deception that HornsManiac has so wrongly been accused of. The said devaneyfan cannot prove he is innocent any easier than HornsManiac can.... likewise the same works with proving the other is guilty.

This really should be a no brainer. Some team owners are unhappy so they have every right to leave the league and join another one or form their own. Nothing more or nothing less than that, in my opinion.

I apologize for speaking in third person, but I thought it may lighten up my tone a little bit. I am really not as bitter as that post sounds, because I know what I suggested is the right thing to do - no, the only thing to do. Think about what would happen if every time an owner made an allegation about the commish OOTP Leagues deleted their server account. Just like the guy mentioned above there will always be someone with an ax to grind.

Many thanks,

HornsManiac

HornsManiac · 06-17-2002, 01:14 PM

ScottVib - Thanks a million for your insight. Just to let you know at least three people had and still have access to our server space. Also, I downloaded the league file from the server onto my machine on many occasions. It never even crossed my mind how much of a security breach that was.

Clearly, this is a terrible situation, but there is no proof that I am guilty of any of these accusations made against me.

Thanks, HornsManiac

Raven · 06-17-2002, 02:57 PM

I was the AL President in this league, and would like to confirm what Devaneyfan has said.

When the news of the Braves being modified became public, Hornsmaniac deleted the entire thread. We had not decided whether the league would continue with him as Commish, or move on without him - but he decided to take actions into his owns hands. This upset a lot of Owners, and now noone is supporting him.

I have 20 Owners who will support the RWB without HM's involvement, he has 0 Owners who have publically stated that they would remain in his league. He has passed on the league server to a 3rd party - someone who was never officially involved in the league in any way.

HM, nor the 3rd party are the people who registered the server space. Devaneyfan is the one who registered it.

This is not your typical league where one guys says hey I am going to start a league and be the Commish. This league idea was started by Horns, and another on the FOFC forum. 30 Owners decided to join, and Devaneyfan was the original Commish, with Horns and I as the league presidents. Before the season began, Devaney decided he didn't want to be the Commish, so Horns took over the Commish role, and Devaney and I were the League Presidents. This was a League founded by a community of OOTP/FOF'ers, NOT BY ANY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.

I guess the important question here is Who is entitled to the server space? The person who originally registered it? The Commish? or all parties involved equally? Or some 3rd party Commish who thinks he can just come in and hijack our league without consent from ANY of the Owners, other than a former Commish who was already voted out by the majority of owners?

If you do not want to give Devaneyfar or the Owners the server space, that is fine. We will move our league to a different website, or attempt to reclaim our order ID's. But please make a decision either way.

Thank You.

Daimyo · 06-17-2002, 02:58 PM

Honest question: Did you not check your roster between sims? How could you have missed those changes?

Subby · 06-17-2002, 02:58 PM

Just so everyone knows...

The guy that HornsManiac has tabbed to lead the league is named RWBL Kevin.

It was proven today at the FOFC boards that Horns and Kevin are one in the same person.

Here is the link where he gets busted.

Nothingman · 06-17-2002, 03:12 PM

I was/am an owner in the aforementioned league... I confirm what devaneyfan and Raven have already said. We are looking to get the league started again with a new commish (not RWBL Kevin) and we need to get the website situation sorted out.

Please either change the passwords for devaneyfan, as he is the one who originally registered the space, or let us request new space. None of the owners who were previously in the league want to give their order ID's to get web space for "Kevin".

Thank you.

spleen1015 · 06-17-2002, 03:44 PM

Steve, anyone official from .400 Studios, How is a situation like this going to be resolved? Is this something that could be presented to the public? I'm interested to find out how this turns out.

06-14-2002, 09:55 PM	#1
devaneyfan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 138	OOTP-server reports The commissioner of our OOTP league has been accused of modifying his team's roster. He stresses that he is not guilty and perhaps another person uploaded a faulty league file. Our league is on the ootp server. Are there reports that would show IP address or some other identifying information regarding who has uploaded the league .zip file? We would like to make sure these accusations are valid if possible, and this seems like a sure way to do so. Also, is it possible for a team export file to change things like a player's age, talents, and other ratings? This was another explanation offered for the player changes, but we were unable to do so with a couple tests. Thanks __________________ CBL Halifax Golden Squirrel (2002-2027) CBL Hamilton Hawks (2049-)

06-14-2002, 11:25 PM	#2
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The commissioner of our OOTP league has been accused of modifying his team's roster. He stresses that he is not guilty and perhaps another person uploaded a faulty league file.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, how is he suspected of modifying his roster? Talent changes should all be recorded in the team devel pages if that is useful. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, is it possible for a team export file to change things like a player's age, talents, and other ratings? This was another explanation offered for the player changes, but we were unable to do so with a couple tests. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, not possible simply with the roster export files. Even if several GM's besides the commish had the ftp password and uploaded a full new edited league file for everyone else to download, it would be very unlikely that the edits/changes would work. The reason is because the Commish will rarely download the leagues master zip file - he does not need to as he already has that on his local PC ! Any changes to the master league file would simply mean that most of the roster exports he recieved for that sim would not properly import into the Commish's master league file (on his hard drive). All the roster edits/changes would be gone when the next league file is uploaded. When suspecting anyone of cheating I think it is important to confirm the cheat "symptoms" with someone very knowledgeable about how the game works. I have seen dozens of cheat accusations in online leagues but of all the episodes I have checked out, only one seemed like a probable case of cheating. __________________ FOBL Capital City Metropolitans CDL Minnesota Twins

06-15-2002, 01:59 AM	#3
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,022	Killer is right on here, team exports can't change anything but lineups, rotations and switch players between levels(for the most part). Any "talent" changes that the game makes show up in "player development". __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

06-15-2002, 04:30 AM	#4
devaneyfan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 138	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sorry, how is he suspected of modifying his roster? Talent changes should all be recorded in the team devel pages if that is useful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here is the account of his cheating: <a href="http://www.ootp-leagues.com/mbs/rwbl/viewthread.php?tid=399" target="_blank"> Braves Player Modifications </a> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When suspecting anyone of cheating I think it is important to confirm the cheat "symptoms" with someone very knowledgeable about how the game works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is the case. grismosw from this board is one of the people who was involved in this decision. As is another owner who is serving as AL President, although don't know his OOTP screen name he has a lot of OOTP and online league experience. The owner who alerted us to these irregularities also has a lot of game experience. I'm afraid the entire situation is going to get very messy. I just hoped there was some server report that could substantiate the commissioner's claims that someone else uploaded bogus files. He does claim that he has overwritten his own file on many occasions. __________________ CBL Halifax Golden Squirrel (2002-2027) CBL Hamilton Hawks (2049-)

06-15-2002, 04:50 AM	#5
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,022	I do not know if any such log exists as the server is in Germany. Try contacting andreas@400softwarestudios.com for more info concerning this. In addition, no matter how you change your roster then export it and then import into the "league file" the changes do not transfer. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

06-15-2002, 09:39 AM	#6
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm afraid the entire situation is going to get very messy. I just hoped there was some server report that could substantiate the commissioner's claims that someone else uploaded bogus files. He does claim that he has overwritten his own file on many occasions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good luck with that server report. It's hard to think of good reasons for having to over write your master file as Commish. The most likely reason IMO would be simming ahead or test simming, which many leagues frown on anyway. __________________ FOBL Capital City Metropolitans CDL Minnesota Twins

06-15-2002, 10:11 AM	#7
devaneyfan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 138	Well our commish decided to delete the thread that accuses him of cheating anyway and the vast majority of original owners are moving on. I actually requested the server space in my name and then passed the passwords on to him when he took over as commish. It's a shame that many owners used their order IDs to request this space and then were let down. Are there any standards for commissioner behavior regarding the use of the OOTP space? If not, this is probably a worst case scenario of why there should be. __________________ CBL Halifax Golden Squirrel (2002-2027) CBL Hamilton Hawks (2049-)

06-15-2002, 10:25 AM	#8
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,022	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by devaneyfan: <strong>Well our commish decided to delete the thread that accuses him of cheating anyway and the vast majority of original owners are moving on. I actually requested the server space in my name and then passed the passwords on to him when he took over as commish. It's a shame that many owners used their order IDs to request this space and then were let down. Are there any standards for commissioner behavior regarding the use of the OOTP space? If not, this is probably a worst case scenario of why there should be.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Agreed that this is a bad situation, but would really be difficult to "police" behavior. If the owners/GM's used their ID sounds like the league is falling apart, if so let Andreas know and maybe ID's can be used in another league. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

06-16-2002, 07:50 AM	#9
ehrie Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 85	Now I don't know about hte guilt or innocence of this guy, but hoi, every league seems to have somoene with an ax to grind. I remember being accused of purposly injuring someone on said complainers team. He went on and on about how this injury would benefit my team yada yada yada and even after I and a few other owners pointed out how I would have had to edit log files, box scores etc etc etc to do something like that and how utterly absurd it was, it still never stops people at a later date of questioning the integrity of the commish. One of the pitfalls with the job I guess. =D __________________ <a href="http://www.bbl.ootp-leagues.com" target="_blank">Black Sox Baseball League</a> Commish BBL Yankees

06-16-2002, 07:26 PM	#10
HornsManiac Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: TEXAS Posts: 73	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ehrie: <strong>Now I don't know about hte guilt or innocence of this guy, but hoi, every league seems to have somoene with an ax to grind. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am "that guy" and believe me when I tell you there were many people who had an ax to grind.... a very big ax. Steve - I am also working with Andreas, so now because of devaneyfan's desire to crush the league Andreas is in a tough situation that requires him to parent to grown men. What devaneyfan needs to do is just leave the league if he is not happy and go find another one to join. Since when does a team owner have the right to overturn the Commish by force? I hope Andreas sees it the same way, because that is clearly what makes the most sense. Thanks, HornsManiac __________________ HOOK 'EM HORNS Texas Baseball 2002 Big XII Season Champs 2002 Big XII Tournament Champs 2002 Regional Champs 2002 Super Regional Champs 2002 National Champions

06-17-2002, 12:33 PM	#11
devaneyfan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Lincoln, NE Posts: 138	HornsManiac has now decided to take the server password information and pass it on to an independent person who was never invovled with the league to serve as commish. The majority of the previous owners already elected a new commish and planned to keep the league going, but the server space has now been handed to a 3rd party which none of the previous owners support. HornsManiac has not only stabbed the league owners who provided ID's for this web service in the back, but he has also abused the space by turning it over to a completely independent source. This should cleary be against the OOTP server "rules". I would strongly request that the current rwbl space be eliminated and, if possible, order ID fields in the customer data base can be cleared for everyone who submitted them for this currently hijacked league. At least that way, the guys who truly want to continue this league could attempt to find their own webspace free of either HornsManiac or my invovlement. __________________ CBL Halifax Golden Squirrel (2002-2027) CBL Hamilton Hawks (2049-)

06-17-2002, 01:05 PM	#13
Neuqua458 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 33	I just want to make sure I understand, i was in the league that was before-mentioned and am not interested in participating with the new commish whom was brought out of no where. I think my Order ID may have been used, and so i would have to email that andreas guy and explain the situation to him to get my ID back? Thanks in advance for the help.

06-17-2002, 01:08 PM	#14
HornsManiac Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: TEXAS Posts: 73	HornsManiac has owners in the league who are ready to move forward with the action. HornsManiac was and still is the commissioner of the league. HornsManiac founded the league, named the league, and took over as Commissioner to prevent the league's death after said devaneyfan abandoned the league without notice and left the league to die. Clearly, he is not very concerned about the future of RWBL. What he is really concerned about is the future of his league which is using a portion of RWBL's server space at this time. He has been asked many times to remove his data from RWBL's registered server space, but refuses to do so. Is there any rules that prevent him doing that? HornsManiac is working with another guy and fellow fan of OOTP who is assisting him in recruiting more members. HornsManiac had to use him and his name because the actions of devaneyfan have severely damaged the credibility of HornsManiac's own name. HornsManiac has no problems with owners leaving the league if they feel they must. That is their right, of course. HornsManiac also does not have any problem with OOTP Leagues returning the game ID numbers to the guys who are leaving the league as long as his league stays in tact on the current server space with reset passwords to the server and message board. HornsManiac has not been proven guilty of any wrongdoing. Frankly the said devaneyfan himself could have just as easily performed the actions of deception that HornsManiac has so wrongly been accused of. The said devaneyfan cannot prove he is innocent any easier than HornsManiac can.... likewise the same works with proving the other is guilty. This really should be a no brainer. Some team owners are unhappy so they have every right to leave the league and join another one or form their own. Nothing more or nothing less than that, in my opinion. I apologize for speaking in third person, but I thought it may lighten up my tone a little bit. I am really not as bitter as that post sounds, because I know what I suggested is the right thing to do - no, the only thing to do. Think about what would happen if every time an owner made an allegation about the commish OOTP Leagues deleted their server account. Just like the guy mentioned above there will always be someone with an ax to grind. Many thanks, HornsManiac __________________ HOOK 'EM HORNS Texas Baseball 2002 Big XII Season Champs 2002 Big XII Tournament Champs 2002 Regional Champs 2002 Super Regional Champs 2002 National Champions

06-17-2002, 01:14 PM	#15
HornsManiac Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: TEXAS Posts: 73	ScottVib - Thanks a million for your insight. Just to let you know at least three people had and still have access to our server space. Also, I downloaded the league file from the server onto my machine on many occasions. It never even crossed my mind how much of a security breach that was. Clearly, this is a terrible situation, but there is no proof that I am guilty of any of these accusations made against me. Thanks, HornsManiac __________________ HOOK 'EM HORNS Texas Baseball 2002 Big XII Season Champs 2002 Big XII Tournament Champs 2002 Regional Champs 2002 Super Regional Champs 2002 National Champions

06-17-2002, 02:57 PM	#16
Raven Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 94	I was the AL President in this league, and would like to confirm what Devaneyfan has said. When the news of the Braves being modified became public, Hornsmaniac deleted the entire thread. We had not decided whether the league would continue with him as Commish, or move on without him - but he decided to take actions into his owns hands. This upset a lot of Owners, and now noone is supporting him. I have 20 Owners who will support the RWB without HM's involvement, he has 0 Owners who have publically stated that they would remain in his league. He has passed on the league server to a 3rd party - someone who was never officially involved in the league in any way. HM, nor the 3rd party are the people who registered the server space. Devaneyfan is the one who registered it. This is not your typical league where one guys says hey I am going to start a league and be the Commish. This league idea was started by Horns, and another on the FOFC forum. 30 Owners decided to join, and Devaneyfan was the original Commish, with Horns and I as the league presidents. Before the season began, Devaney decided he didn't want to be the Commish, so Horns took over the Commish role, and Devaney and I were the League Presidents. This was a League founded by a community of OOTP/FOF'ers, NOT BY ANY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL. I guess the important question here is Who is entitled to the server space? The person who originally registered it? The Commish? or all parties involved equally? Or some 3rd party Commish who thinks he can just come in and hijack our league without consent from ANY of the Owners, other than a former Commish who was already voted out by the majority of owners? If you do not want to give Devaneyfar or the Owners the server space, that is fine. We will move our league to a different website, or attempt to reclaim our order ID's. But please make a decision either way. Thank You.

06-17-2002, 02:58 PM	#17
Daimyo Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Evanston, IL Posts: 15	Honest question: Did you not check your roster between sims? How could you have missed those changes?

06-17-2002, 02:58 PM	#18
Subby Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 375	Just so everyone knows... The guy that HornsManiac has tabbed to lead the league is named RWBL Kevin. It was proven today at the FOFC boards that Horns and Kevin are one in the same person. Here is the link where he gets busted.

06-17-2002, 03:12 PM	#19
Nothingman Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 23	I was/am an owner in the aforementioned league... I confirm what devaneyfan and Raven have already said. We are looking to get the league started again with a new commish (not RWBL Kevin) and we need to get the website situation sorted out. Please either change the passwords for devaneyfan, as he is the one who originally registered the space, or let us request new space. None of the owners who were previously in the league want to give their order ID's to get web space for "Kevin". Thank you.

06-17-2002, 03:44 PM	#20
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 5,951	Steve, anyone official from .400 Studios, How is a situation like this going to be resolved? Is this something that could be presented to the public? I'm interested to find out how this turns out.