100% CPU bug - Page 3

BleacherBum · 03-11-2002, 06:46 PM

TECHNICAL INVESTIGATION (the geek stuff):

OK, I resorted to looking at the Windows Performance Monitor. With OOTP4 running (on the startup screen, the following specific measurements are impacted severely:

Processor / %Processor Time - runs consistently at 100%
(near 0% without OOTP)
Processor / %User Time - runs about 95% on startup screen, down to about 70% after hitting "Let's Play"
(near 0% without OOTP)

System / Processor Queue Length - ranges from 3 to 12 with OOTP running, avg is 4+
(ranges from 1-2 without OOTP but while using other apps)

This last one is important, per Microsoft mgmt console help (text reproduced below)

Investigating processor bottlenecks
A processor bottleneck develops when threads of a process require more processor cycles than are available. Long processor queues can build up and system response suffers. The two most common causes of processor bottlenecks are CPU-bound programs and drivers or subsystem components (typically disk or network components) that generate excessive interrupts.

To determine whether a processor bottleneck exists due to high levels of demand for processor time, check the value of the System\ Processor Queue Length counter. A queue of two or more items indicates a bottleneck.

- - -

OOTP Developers - any thoughts on this? Should I provide any other information?

davep1967 · 03-12-2002, 04:40 AM

[quote]Originally posted by cb:

I'm running an Athlon XP1600 with water cooling and my CPU temps never go above 36 c.<hr></blockquote>

I have the same chip.... What are you using to cool yours with????? You got a link or product name for the water supply/fan ???.. I need one.

Scott Vibert · 03-12-2002, 04:56 AM

Its the memory that this game soaks up, causing the CPU slow down, the database is quite large and for the game to run with any decent speed, the database must be stored in memory. The database will sit in the memory as long as the game is open, which explains your high usage for the most part. (If the game can not store the entire database in its memory the game will go very slow as it has to write chunks of the database to temp files, and one of the most time intensive tasks on any processor is file open/closes; read/writes (along with if statements). Text based games such as OOTP and Champ Manager, will always use up more memory and more CPU than the graphics based games because of the size of the database that needs to be loaded in the computers memory. While the hardware animations require more CPU activity, the activity doesn't require much memory and as a result doesn't take as big of a load on the machine.

In the past firewall/virus check software have been known to cause slowdowns when these are run in the background with OOTP.

The only times I've had issues with OOTP on my scrub machine is before I added RAM (from 64 to 192) the game was extremely slow, and when one of the stupid background windows programs (often systray or winmgmt) hangs up on me, otherwise I don't seem to run into issues with the game overheating my CPU, even if I run AOL, AIM, and IE(and on occaision Excel) at the same time (although running all these programs, especially if you have multiple IE windows and Excel will cause major slow downs and is probably not advisable on a scrub machine like mine).

Edit - If someone wanted to do a test, try creating a league with only 2 teams and only enough players to fill those 2 teams. Check your CPU usage for this, hopefully it will be less than 100%, but I'm not sure off hand. Anyone want to try this?

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: ScottVib ]

mwolin · 03-12-2002, 06:08 AM

On my desktop machine i have no problems running OOTP on windows 98. The issue is my laptop with XP. I think the problem is the advanced power management which detects CPU heating and locks the computer up (turns the screen off) and spins the drive down. Others on this board have noted the same problem.

Unless this is fixed, this game will be difficult for laptop users, not just because of heating but because of battery consumption. Oh well..back to DMB on my laptop....

Glen · 03-12-2002, 07:01 AM

I hate to be a naysayer mwolin, but what games are intended for use on a laptop?

What's the standard battery life on a laptop, between 3 and 4 hours?

So, you're saying that the game isn't even worth playing on your laptop if you get 1 1/2 hours in, but if you get 3, it's all good?

Just one other question. How long can you play DMB before the battery runs out?

I've been running OOTP3 and OOTP4 on Windows 2k machines for the last year and have seen the 100% CPU issue on mine. But it hasn't affected anything on my machine other than CD burning, and I know well enough not to burn a CD when your HD is being accessed by a program constantly. I have never seen a problem due to heat related problems because of OOTP.

Now, my next question would be, how long after you have a "CPU Heat" related issue do you have to leave the computer off before it will come back on? As a person who works and fixes computers for a living, I know that if a system shuts off because the processor is over heating. You can't just turn it back on. It takes time to cool down before it will work again, and more often than not. It's not just an application causing the issue. If a CPU is over-heating, there is usually something else at play, more than likely bad hardware.

Just my 3 cents (That's more than I've said in a while, so it's worth an extra cent.)

Glen

BleacherBum · 03-12-2002, 07:31 AM

"Its the memory that this game soaks up, causing the CPU slow down, the database is quite large and for the game to run with any decent speed, the database must be stored in memory."

I don't agree with this assessment. Its fine if the game loads a bunch of data in memory. There's still no reason to pin the processor if the game isn't doing anything with that data. Note that my CPU hits 100% constantly, while the game sits on the opening page, or the league setup page. In fact I haven't started a season yet (just bought it last night) and this problem is persistent.

The memory footprint that I witness on game load is around 40MB - my machine has 256MB. I can run other applications (separately) that hog as much or more memory, but they don't constantly pin the processor.

Your comments regarding known conflicts with other programs are interesting - any more detail here? I do have the Norton virus and firewall programs, but those were immediate suspects in my testing and unfortunately shutting them off did not change the behavior of OOTP.

BleacherBum · 03-12-2002, 07:42 AM

Since OOTP2 I've noticed that the program has a bug somewhere (or a designed feature) that means whenever OOTP2, OOTP3 or now OOTP4 are running the CPU usage jumps to 100%.

Have the developers been aware of this since OOTP2?!? And if so, what has been their response to this problem in the past?

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: BleacherBum ]

Khaos · 03-12-2002, 07:52 AM

The memory has nothing to do with CPU utilization. If nothing on the RAM demands processing at the time, the CPU will not be used by it. Soooooo, what part of the program is demanding CPU cycles while nothing is being done?

I also noticed another common fallacy in this thread. System resources do not represent the amount of RAM being used. You can have 64MB of RAM or 512MB of RAM and with both having the same number of programs open, they will both have the same percentage of resources used.

The resource percentage that Windows monitors is two 64kb chunks of memory. Yep, it's just 128kb of memory being measured. They are set at 64kb apiece because that's the size of data 586 style CPUs like to use. One chunk handles keeping track of what processes are open and running, and the other chunk deals with the GUI, as in what shows up on your screen via how many windows are open.

Increased RAM will give increased performance because the amount of data that can be accessed from it increases and its much faster to access than the hd, but it still only uses 128kb of resources, so no matter how much RAM you buy, you still are limited to how many programs you can run at the same time.

OK, guess time. My theory is that the graphics side of the game is being handled primarily by the CPU instead of the graphics card itself. Before someone puts me in my place as to why I'm wrong and how stupid I am, it is only a guess.

JML · 03-12-2002, 01:24 PM

[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib:


Edit - If someone wanted to do a test, try creating a league with only 2 teams and only enough players to fill those 2 teams. Check your CPU usage for this, hopefully it will be less than 100%, but I'm not sure off hand. Anyone want to try this?

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: ScottVib ]<hr></blockquote>

I just tried this. Two teams, 50 players on each, deleted all FA's. Still showing 100% CPU usage.

mwolin · 03-12-2002, 01:50 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Glen:
I hate to be a naysayer mwolin, but what games are intended for use on a laptop?

What's the standard battery life on a laptop, between 3 and 4 hours?

So, you're saying that the game isn't even worth playing on your laptop if you get 1 1/2 hours in, but if you get 3, it's all good?

Just one other question. How long can you play DMB before the battery runs out?

I've been running OOTP3 and OOTP4 on Windows 2k machines for the last year and have seen the 100% CPU issue on mine. But it hasn't affected anything on my machine other than CD burning, and I know well enough not to burn a CD when your HD is being accessed by a program constantly. I have never seen a problem due to heat related problems because of OOTP.

Now, my next question would be, how long after you have a "CPU Heat" related issue do you have to leave the computer off before it will come back on? As a person who works and fixes computers for a living, I know that if a system shuts off because the processor is over heating. You can't just turn it back on. It takes time to cool down before it will work again, and more often than not. It's not just an application causing the issue. If a CPU is over-heating, there is usually something else at play, more than likely bad hardware.

Just my 3 cents (That's more than I've said in a while, so it's worth an extra cent.)

Glen<hr></blockquote>

I agree that there might be a hardware problem although when i spoke to Compaq they thought the software responsible for the computer shutting off. No other program I have behaves this way, using 100% CPU for so long. Tell me, though, what happens when you try to burn a CD?

As far as games on a laptop....simulations are ideal for long plane rides etc. Its too bad this one is not working.

mwolin · 03-12-2002, 01:52 PM

Does anyone know whether the 100% issue is specific for XP, ie, it seems less common on Win98 and ME machines.

BleacherBum · 03-12-2002, 05:07 PM

After reading the numerous posts in here, it sure seems that the problem is not OS specific. I tend to believe its related to how the game was designed and/or programmed. And since it is the odd software program that behaves in this manner, I also concur with other's assessments that this is a "bug".

It reminds me of the kid who can have a roomful of toys and somehow be "playing" with all of 'em - can't share a single one.

Glen · 03-12-2002, 07:04 PM

When I burn CD's using any application, be it web browsing or just about anything else. Even typing a letter in word, I'll see the disk fail 5 times out of 10. That's just because the CD-Writer wants total usage of the system. It's copying massive amounts of data to a drive that can't write as fast as the data is transfered. Slow that down, and you'll have buffer underuns and other failures.

Same thing happens if I run Eastside Hockey Manager while burning a disk.

I understand that games like this are great for trips and such. But how long of a battery life do you get with other sims? 3 hours?

Allow me to use my hands to close my mouth... Compaq is blaming someone else for a system problem? Say it isn't so.

The only way to get good tech support from a manufacturer is to give them the hard facts. The system is overheating. Period. The fact that any application is doing it is invalid. This shouldn't happen to the system.

All you managed to do is to give them an out so that they could say that it isn't their fault. Believe me, I've been in the biz long enough to know that's all that a tech support person wants you to do, know just enough that you get off the phone with them... hopefully with someone else to blame.

You have a system problem plain and simple, but you don't see everyone else here complaining of processors overheating. Unfortunately, the 100% CPU usage has shown a system problem that you have. Hopefully Compaq will fix it for you, if not... well, you should be sorry you bought a Compaq.

Glen

theDutchman · 03-12-2002, 07:24 PM

[quote]Allow me to use my hands to close my mouth... Compaq is blaming someone else for a system problem? Say it isn't so.

The only way to get good tech support from a manufacturer is to give them the hard facts. The system is overheating. Period. The fact that any application is doing it is invalid. This shouldn't happen to the system.

All you managed to do is to give them an out so that they could say that it isn't their fault. Believe me, I've been in the biz long enough to know that's all that a tech support person wants you to do, know just enough that you get off the phone with them... hopefully with someone else to blame.<hr></blockquote>

I've returned a couple of laptops to Compaq, no questions asked for repair and they even were kind enough to send me nifty boxes to ship them in.

Bad hardware? Well, there are obviously different degrees of "bad". My home PC's CPU runs alarmingly high temperature readings. I'm not going to replace it until it dies. Should I accelerate that process by running faulty software? I like OOTP4 at 30 bucks, but not at 430 bucks.

Yossarian · 03-12-2002, 09:19 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Glen:
When I burn CD's using any application, be it web browsing or just about anything else. Even typing a letter in word, I'll see the disk fail 5 times out of 10. That's just because the CD-Writer wants total usage of the system. It's copying massive amounts of data to a drive that can't write as fast as the data is transfered. Slow that down, and you'll have buffer underuns and other failures.<hr></blockquote>

Feel free to slap me but you should get a CD writer that is newer than 1999, they don't do that anymore

Glen · 03-13-2002, 07:09 AM

Well, if he was contacting Compaq, it should be under warranty.

As far as the CD burner goes. I do have one that's about a year or 2 old. But, it gets more than it's fair share of use.

Glen

Khaos · 03-13-2002, 09:54 AM

Get a burner with burnproof. It will eliminate buffer underruns.

marioh · 03-13-2002, 10:41 AM

I agree with some of the other posters here about RAM having nothing to do with this problem.
I run 256MB RAM and maybe 1/8th of that goes to OOTP. Hell, I'm not even hitting my swap file with OOTP and a bunch of other apps open.

This is a problem with the game itself (100% CPU) and should effect everyone's PC.

I have practically nothing running on startup, even some of the Microsoft recommended startup items, and once OOTP4 starts, my CPU gets pinned at 100% (Athlon 1Ghz). In a way though, I think that 100% utilization is deceiving. I have not seen any performance degradation in any other applications while OOTP4 runs (non CPU intensive apps such as IE, notepad, etc.) and I'm able to switch between programs without any problems. The game seems to be doing nothing, yet the CPU util is at 100%. It almost seems like the game is in a pseudo endless loop awaiting the next user input into the game.

BleacherBum · 03-13-2002, 11:12 AM

Its also disappointing to realize that this is the largest active topic in the Tech Support area, and has been alive for 2 weeks, and we get essentially no acknowledgement of the problem from the developers.

Scott Vibert · 03-13-2002, 11:31 AM

This could be because it doesn't seem to be effecting some PC's... so its still unclear if this is an OOTP problem or a PC problem... or some combination thereof. A member of the development team posted in this thread and mentioned that his CPU was only at 68% while running the game...

03-11-2002, 06:46 PM	#41
BleacherBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 672	TECHNICAL INVESTIGATION (the geek stuff): OK, I resorted to looking at the Windows Performance Monitor. With OOTP4 running (on the startup screen, the following specific measurements are impacted severely: Processor / %Processor Time - runs consistently at 100% (near 0% without OOTP) Processor / %User Time - runs about 95% on startup screen, down to about 70% after hitting "Let's Play" (near 0% without OOTP) System / Processor Queue Length - ranges from 3 to 12 with OOTP running, avg is 4+ (ranges from 1-2 without OOTP but while using other apps) This last one is important, per Microsoft mgmt console help (text reproduced below) Investigating processor bottlenecks A processor bottleneck develops when threads of a process require more processor cycles than are available. Long processor queues can build up and system response suffers. The two most common causes of processor bottlenecks are CPU-bound programs and drivers or subsystem components (typically disk or network components) that generate excessive interrupts. To determine whether a processor bottleneck exists due to high levels of demand for processor time, check the value of the System\ Processor Queue Length counter. A queue of two or more items indicates a bottleneck. - - - OOTP Developers - any thoughts on this? Should I provide any other information? __________________ Right Field Sucks!

03-12-2002, 04:40 AM	#42
davep1967 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 176	[quote]Originally posted by cb: <strong> I'm running an Athlon XP1600 with water cooling and my CPU temps never go above 36 c.</strong><hr></blockquote> I have the same chip.... What are you using to cool yours with????? You got a link or product name for the water supply/fan ???.. I need one. __________________ Try the StickWare Schedule Generator!

03-12-2002, 04:56 AM	#43
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,182	Its the memory that this game soaks up, causing the CPU slow down, the database is quite large and for the game to run with any decent speed, the database must be stored in memory. The database will sit in the memory as long as the game is open, which explains your high usage for the most part. (If the game can not store the entire database in its memory the game will go very slow as it has to write chunks of the database to temp files, and one of the most time intensive tasks on any processor is file open/closes; read/writes (along with if statements). Text based games such as OOTP and Champ Manager, will always use up more memory and more CPU than the graphics based games because of the size of the database that needs to be loaded in the computers memory. While the hardware animations require more CPU activity, the activity doesn't require much memory and as a result doesn't take as big of a load on the machine. In the past firewall/virus check software have been known to cause slowdowns when these are run in the background with OOTP. The only times I've had issues with OOTP on my scrub machine is before I added RAM (from 64 to 192) the game was extremely slow, and when one of the stupid background windows programs (often systray or winmgmt) hangs up on me, otherwise I don't seem to run into issues with the game overheating my CPU, even if I run AOL, AIM, and IE(and on occaision Excel) at the same time (although running all these programs, especially if you have multiple IE windows and Excel will cause major slow downs and is probably not advisable on a scrub machine like mine). Edit - If someone wanted to do a test, try creating a league with only 2 teams and only enough players to fill those 2 teams. Check your CPU usage for this, hopefully it will be less than 100%, but I'm not sure off hand. Anyone want to try this? [ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: ScottVib ]</p>

03-12-2002, 07:01 AM	#45
Glen Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 153	I hate to be a naysayer mwolin, but what games are intended for use on a laptop? What's the standard battery life on a laptop, between 3 and 4 hours? So, you're saying that the game isn't even worth playing on your laptop if you get 1 1/2 hours in, but if you get 3, it's all good? Just one other question. How long can you play DMB before the battery runs out? I've been running OOTP3 and OOTP4 on Windows 2k machines for the last year and have seen the 100% CPU issue on mine. But it hasn't affected anything on my machine other than CD burning, and I know well enough not to burn a CD when your HD is being accessed by a program constantly. I have never seen a problem due to heat related problems because of OOTP. Now, my next question would be, how long after you have a "CPU Heat" related issue do you have to leave the computer off before it will come back on? As a person who works and fixes computers for a living, I know that if a system shuts off because the processor is over heating. You can't just turn it back on. It takes time to cool down before it will work again, and more often than not. It's not just an application causing the issue. If a CPU is over-heating, there is usually something else at play, more than likely bad hardware. Just my 3 cents (That's more than I've said in a while, so it's worth an extra cent.) Glen __________________ Colorado Rockies - DBLC

03-12-2002, 07:31 AM	#46
BleacherBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 672	"Its the memory that this game soaks up, causing the CPU slow down, the database is quite large and for the game to run with any decent speed, the database must be stored in memory." I don't agree with this assessment. Its fine if the game loads a bunch of data in memory. There's still no reason to pin the processor if the game isn't doing anything with that data. Note that my CPU hits 100% constantly, while the game sits on the opening page, or the league setup page. In fact I haven't started a season yet (just bought it last night) and this problem is persistent. The memory footprint that I witness on game load is around 40MB - my machine has 256MB. I can run other applications (separately) that hog as much or more memory, but they don't constantly pin the processor. Your comments regarding known conflicts with other programs are interesting - any more detail here? I do have the Norton virus and firewall programs, but those were immediate suspects in my testing and unfortunately shutting them off did not change the behavior of OOTP. __________________ Right Field Sucks!

03-12-2002, 06:08 AM	#44
mwolin Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 15	On my desktop machine i have no problems running OOTP on windows 98. The issue is my laptop with XP. I think the problem is the advanced power management which detects CPU heating and locks the computer up (turns the screen off) and spins the drive down. Others on this board have noted the same problem. Unless this is fixed, this game will be difficult for laptop users, not just because of heating but because of battery consumption. Oh well..back to DMB on my laptop....

03-12-2002, 07:42 AM	#47
BleacherBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 672	Since OOTP2 I've noticed that the program has a bug somewhere (or a designed feature) that means whenever OOTP2, OOTP3 or now OOTP4 are running the CPU usage jumps to 100%. Have the developers been aware of this since OOTP2?!? And if so, what has been their response to this problem in the past? [ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: BleacherBum ]</p> __________________ Right Field Sucks!

03-12-2002, 07:52 AM	#48
Khaos Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canfield, OH Posts: 473	The memory has nothing to do with CPU utilization. If nothing on the RAM demands processing at the time, the CPU will not be used by it. Soooooo, what part of the program is demanding CPU cycles while nothing is being done? I also noticed another common fallacy in this thread. System resources do not represent the amount of RAM being used. You can have 64MB of RAM or 512MB of RAM and with both having the same number of programs open, they will both have the same percentage of resources used. The resource percentage that Windows monitors is two 64kb chunks of memory. Yep, it's just 128kb of memory being measured. They are set at 64kb apiece because that's the size of data 586 style CPUs like to use. One chunk handles keeping track of what processes are open and running, and the other chunk deals with the GUI, as in what shows up on your screen via how many windows are open. Increased RAM will give increased performance because the amount of data that can be accessed from it increases and its much faster to access than the hd, but it still only uses 128kb of resources, so no matter how much RAM you buy, you still are limited to how many programs you can run at the same time. OK, guess time. My theory is that the graphics side of the game is being handled primarily by the CPU instead of the graphics card itself. Before someone puts me in my place as to why I'm wrong and how stupid I am, it is only a guess. __________________ squish

03-12-2002, 01:24 PM	#49
JML Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The act or process of locating. Posts: 2,154	[quote]Originally posted by ScottVib: <strong> Edit - If someone wanted to do a test, try creating a league with only 2 teams and only enough players to fill those 2 teams. Check your CPU usage for this, hopefully it will be less than 100%, but I'm not sure off hand. Anyone want to try this? [ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: ScottVib ]</strong><hr></blockquote> I just tried this. Two teams, 50 players on each, deleted all FA's. Still showing 100% CPU usage.

03-12-2002, 01:50 PM	#50
mwolin Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 15	[quote]Originally posted by Glen: <strong>I hate to be a naysayer mwolin, but what games are intended for use on a laptop? What's the standard battery life on a laptop, between 3 and 4 hours? So, you're saying that the game isn't even worth playing on your laptop if you get 1 1/2 hours in, but if you get 3, it's all good? Just one other question. How long can you play DMB before the battery runs out? I've been running OOTP3 and OOTP4 on Windows 2k machines for the last year and have seen the 100% CPU issue on mine. But it hasn't affected anything on my machine other than CD burning, and I know well enough not to burn a CD when your HD is being accessed by a program constantly. I have never seen a problem due to heat related problems because of OOTP. Now, my next question would be, how long after you have a "CPU Heat" related issue do you have to leave the computer off before it will come back on? As a person who works and fixes computers for a living, I know that if a system shuts off because the processor is over heating. You can't just turn it back on. It takes time to cool down before it will work again, and more often than not. It's not just an application causing the issue. If a CPU is over-heating, there is usually something else at play, more than likely bad hardware. Just my 3 cents (That's more than I've said in a while, so it's worth an extra cent.) Glen</strong><hr></blockquote> I agree that there might be a hardware problem although when i spoke to Compaq they thought the software responsible for the computer shutting off. No other program I have behaves this way, using 100% CPU for so long. Tell me, though, what happens when you try to burn a CD? As far as games on a laptop....simulations are ideal for long plane rides etc. Its too bad this one is not working.

03-12-2002, 01:52 PM	#51
mwolin Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 15	Does anyone know whether the 100% issue is specific for XP, ie, it seems less common on Win98 and ME machines.

03-12-2002, 05:07 PM	#52
BleacherBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 672	After reading the numerous posts in here, it sure seems that the problem is not OS specific. I tend to believe its related to how the game was designed and/or programmed. And since it is the odd software program that behaves in this manner, I also concur with other's assessments that this is a "bug". It reminds me of the kid who can have a roomful of toys and somehow be "playing" with all of 'em - can't share a single one. __________________ Right Field Sucks!

03-12-2002, 07:04 PM	#53
Glen Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 153	When I burn CD's using any application, be it web browsing or just about anything else. Even typing a letter in word, I'll see the disk fail 5 times out of 10. That's just because the CD-Writer wants total usage of the system. It's copying massive amounts of data to a drive that can't write as fast as the data is transfered. Slow that down, and you'll have buffer underuns and other failures. Same thing happens if I run Eastside Hockey Manager while burning a disk. I understand that games like this are great for trips and such. But how long of a battery life do you get with other sims? 3 hours? Allow me to use my hands to close my mouth... Compaq is blaming someone else for a system problem? Say it isn't so. The only way to get good tech support from a manufacturer is to give them the hard facts. The system is overheating. Period. The fact that any application is doing it is invalid. This shouldn't happen to the system. All you managed to do is to give them an out so that they could say that it isn't their fault. Believe me, I've been in the biz long enough to know that's all that a tech support person wants you to do, know just enough that you get off the phone with them... hopefully with someone else to blame. You have a system problem plain and simple, but you don't see everyone else here complaining of processors overheating. Unfortunately, the 100% CPU usage has shown a system problem that you have. Hopefully Compaq will fix it for you, if not... well, you should be sorry you bought a Compaq. Glen __________________ Colorado Rockies - DBLC

03-12-2002, 07:24 PM	#54
theDutchman Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 17	[quote]Allow me to use my hands to close my mouth... Compaq is blaming someone else for a system problem? Say it isn't so. The only way to get good tech support from a manufacturer is to give them the hard facts. The system is overheating. Period. The fact that any application is doing it is invalid. This shouldn't happen to the system. All you managed to do is to give them an out so that they could say that it isn't their fault. Believe me, I've been in the biz long enough to know that's all that a tech support person wants you to do, know just enough that you get off the phone with them... hopefully with someone else to blame.<hr></blockquote> I've returned a couple of laptops to Compaq, no questions asked for repair and they even were kind enough to send me nifty boxes to ship them in. Bad hardware? Well, there are obviously different degrees of "bad". My home PC's CPU runs alarmingly high temperature readings. I'm not going to replace it until it dies. Should I accelerate that process by running faulty software? I like OOTP4 at 30 bucks, but not at 430 bucks.

03-12-2002, 09:19 PM	#55
Yossarian Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 87	[quote]Originally posted by Glen: <strong>When I burn CD's using any application, be it web browsing or just about anything else. Even typing a letter in word, I'll see the disk fail 5 times out of 10. That's just because the CD-Writer wants total usage of the system. It's copying massive amounts of data to a drive that can't write as fast as the data is transfered. Slow that down, and you'll have buffer underuns and other failures.</strong><hr></blockquote> Feel free to slap me but you should get a CD writer that is newer than 1999, they don't do that anymore

03-13-2002, 07:09 AM	#56
Glen Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 153	Well, if he was contacting Compaq, it should be under warranty. As far as the CD burner goes. I do have one that's about a year or 2 old. But, it gets more than it's fair share of use. Glen __________________ Colorado Rockies - DBLC

03-13-2002, 09:54 AM	#57
Khaos Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canfield, OH Posts: 473	Get a burner with burnproof. It will eliminate buffer underruns. __________________ squish

03-13-2002, 10:41 AM	#58
marioh All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NYC Posts: 1,162	I agree with some of the other posters here about RAM having nothing to do with this problem. I run 256MB RAM and maybe 1/8th of that goes to OOTP. Hell, I'm not even hitting my swap file with OOTP and a bunch of other apps open. This is a problem with the game itself (100% CPU) and should effect everyone's PC. I have practically nothing running on startup, even some of the Microsoft recommended startup items, and once OOTP4 starts, my CPU gets pinned at 100% (Athlon 1Ghz). In a way though, I think that 100% utilization is deceiving. I have not seen any performance degradation in any other applications while OOTP4 runs (non CPU intensive apps such as IE, notepad, etc.) and I'm able to switch between programs without any problems. The game seems to be doing nothing, yet the CPU util is at 100%. It almost seems like the game is in a pseudo endless loop awaiting the next user input into the game. __________________ RZA - "I'm me and the me that's me is me and is going to continue to be me"

03-13-2002, 11:12 AM	#59
BleacherBum All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 672	Its also disappointing to realize that this is the largest active topic in the Tech Support area, and has been alive for 2 weeks, and we get essentially no acknowledgement of the problem from the developers. __________________ Right Field Sucks!

03-13-2002, 11:31 AM	#60
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,182	This could be because it doesn't seem to be effecting some PC's... so its still unclear if this is an OOTP problem or a PC problem... or some combination thereof. A member of the development team posted in this thread and mentioned that his CPU was only at 68% while running the game...