Fan support bug

Maple Leafs · 03-09-2003, 08:14 PM

This was a bug with v4, and seems to still be there in v5.

Basically, OOTP doesn't seem to boost a team's fan interest unless they're contending for a division title. A team could win 95+ games, but if they're stuck in a division with a 110-win team their fan interest won't rise significantly (it may even fall). Meanwhile, and 85-win team will see it's fan interest jump if it's lucky enough to be in a bad division where nobody else is over .500.

Now it's possible that this is working as designed, since the dev team figured that fans are more interested in the playoffs than regular season win totals. If so, fine. But the bug is that OOTP ignores the wildcard race. That 95-win team could be in a great wildcard race and even make the post-season, but the fans don't care because it's not a division crown.

As a real life example, consider the 2001 Oakland A's. They never contended for the division crown (the Mariners ran away with it), but had the second best record in baseball (102 wins) and won the wildcard. Their attendance increased by over a half million over 2000. In OOTP, it would have stayed the same or fallen because they didn't contend for the division.

Please fix this bug. It's killing interest in our online league, where teams who are stuck in divisions with dominant big-market teams have no way to boost fan interest, even thought they consistently contend for the wildcard.

Raven · 03-09-2003, 11:45 PM

I really hope this issue is addressed. I know that some may think it isn't an issue, but for the situations where it applies, it totally kills any opportunity for a team to generate more revenue even when they play exceptionally well.

If you have a mid market team who wins 90 games and a large market team (in the same division) that wins 100+, there is no way for the mid-market to increase revenue or fan interest because they are constantly 15 games out of first. Playoffs are irrelevant, wild card is irrelevant, OOTP is focusing far too much on games back within the division.

Fix this problem (and other financial issues) and you are on your way to developing a viable financial engine.

Shorty · 03-09-2003, 11:59 PM

It seems to be better in OOTP5, but could still probably use some work. My contending team actually had significant increase in fan loyalty last season, Raven. I hope that makes you feel better

By the way, I, the Devil Rays, finished 2 games back of the Yankees and 1 game out of the wildcard, winning 87 games, and boosting fan loyalty from 18 to 34.

Maybe Oakland has hope afterall Bob

Chief Rum · 03-10-2003, 01:00 AM

See, that's the thing, Shorty. Your game there isn't really indicative of the problem. You finished just outside of first in your division, and saw an increase in fan interest. The problem isn't when you are close to first place. It's when you are far from first place--but still much better than you were before. We are seeing fan interest drops for wildcard contenders in divisions with a very good first place team, for instance. Never mind that the wildcard contender might have won 90 games, but because it finished 15 games back of first place, it actually loses fan interest. That is the problem.

Chief Rum

Raven · 03-10-2003, 01:04 AM

Finishing 2 games out of first doesn't recreate the problem.

Chief's post is exactly what I am trying to say. And if this problem exists for the 2nd place team, then I'm sure it probably exists for everyone in that division as well.

Swaggs · 03-10-2003, 01:19 AM

This is certainly a major issue for the long term integrity of online leagues. A little recognition for an improving team goes a long way financially in online leagues.

This is a problem that needs addressed.

asamford · 03-10-2003, 04:54 AM

I agree that fan interest should be based on more than just how close you are to first place. Wild card, a big free agent signing, a long winning streak, a player chasing a milestone, all of these things should give positive increases to fan interest.

Anrhydeddu · 03-10-2003, 11:15 AM

bump

Raven · 03-10-2003, 11:21 AM

bump. I'm not going to let this thread die out.

Schmidty · 03-10-2003, 11:25 AM

Come on, .400 guys!!! This is a serious issue that needs to be resolved.

David Yellope · 03-10-2003, 11:32 AM

Agreed.. there's no real work around here, because manually editing the FI for all teams would VERY quickly become tedious.

Perhaps do like the Owner expectations in Manager mode. Have the fans set a goal (say, a # of wins).. After about a quarter of a seasonm start adjusting the Fan Interest based on whether the team is meeting, beating or failing in its goals. Thanks

Maple Leafs · 03-10-2003, 11:40 AM

There's any number of improvements that could be made to the fan interest feature. But I don't want to lose site of the issue here, which is the game ignoring the wildcard race.

Even the OOTP 5 manual refers to fan interest being affected by a team's "prospects for post-season play", so the wildcard being ignored can only be called a bug.

Shorty · 03-10-2003, 03:26 PM

Ok, ok, I see the difference. This is true then, this needs to be changed/fixed ASAP.

goldenglove_21 · 03-10-2003, 03:49 PM

With the Cubs in my division I, the Pirates, have no chance of ever having making money with a payroll over $50 million. Definatley needs some tweaking.

sporr · 03-10-2003, 04:38 PM

This is being examined by the beta team.

Neuqua458 · 03-10-2003, 06:29 PM

Just here to reiterate what my guys earlier have been saying. It's really no fun for those teams with a dominant team in their divisions to even continue with the league.

Neuqua

Steve Kuffrey · 03-10-2003, 06:34 PM

As already stated we are looking into this, however I would not want the ability to "increase" fan interest to be too easy either as that would be just as damaging. We will let you know what our research reveals.

Maple Leafs · 03-10-2003, 08:07 PM

Thanks Steve, good to know.

Personally, I'd be happy to just see the wildcard bug fixed, with any further adjustments to fan interest implemented in a future update.

Le Grande Orange · 03-10-2003, 08:42 PM

Actually, this issue is even more important now thanks to OOTP5's customizable playoffs.

Any team in serious contention for a post-season playoff slot should see some increase in its fan interest regardless of its overall W-L record.

David Yellope · 03-11-2003, 11:49 AM

bump

03-09-2003, 08:14 PM	#1
Maple Leafs Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 234	Fan support bug This was a bug with v4, and seems to still be there in v5. Basically, OOTP doesn't seem to boost a team's fan interest unless they're contending for a division title. A team could win 95+ games, but if they're stuck in a division with a 110-win team their fan interest won't rise significantly (it may even fall). Meanwhile, and 85-win team will see it's fan interest jump if it's lucky enough to be in a bad division where nobody else is over .500. Now it's possible that this is working as designed, since the dev team figured that fans are more interested in the playoffs than regular season win totals. If so, fine. But the bug is that OOTP ignores the wildcard race. That 95-win team could be in a great wildcard race and even make the post-season, but the fans don't care because it's not a division crown. As a real life example, consider the 2001 Oakland A's. They never contended for the division crown (the Mariners ran away with it), but had the second best record in baseball (102 wins) and won the wildcard. Their attendance increased by over a half million over 2000. In OOTP, it would have stayed the same or fallen because they didn't contend for the division. Please fix this bug. It's killing interest in our online league, where teams who are stuck in divisions with dominant big-market teams have no way to boost fan interest, even thought they consistently contend for the wildcard.

03-09-2003, 11:59 PM	#3
Shorty All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 992	It seems to be better in OOTP5, but could still probably use some work. My contending team actually had significant increase in fan loyalty last season, Raven. I hope that makes you feel better By the way, I, the Devil Rays, finished 2 games back of the Yankees and 1 game out of the wildcard, winning 87 games, and boosting fan loyalty from 18 to 34. Maybe Oakland has hope afterall Bob __________________ Here we go Redlegs here we go!

03-10-2003, 01:19 AM	#6
Swaggs Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 7	This is certainly a major issue for the long term integrity of online leagues. A little recognition for an improving team goes a long way financially in online leagues. This is a problem that needs addressed. __________________ "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." --Satchel Paige, Inducted into the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame in 1971

03-10-2003, 03:26 PM	#13
Shorty All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 992	Ok, ok, I see the difference. This is true then, this needs to be changed/fixed ASAP. __________________ Here we go Redlegs here we go!

03-10-2003, 03:49 PM	#14
goldenglove_21 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 79	With the Cubs in my division I, the Pirates, have no chance of ever having making money with a payroll over $50 million. Definatley needs some tweaking. __________________

03-09-2003, 11:45 PM	#2
Raven Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 94	I really hope this issue is addressed. I know that some may think it isn't an issue, but for the situations where it applies, it totally kills any opportunity for a team to generate more revenue even when they play exceptionally well. If you have a mid market team who wins 90 games and a large market team (in the same division) that wins 100+, there is no way for the mid-market to increase revenue or fan interest because they are constantly 15 games out of first. Playoffs are irrelevant, wild card is irrelevant, OOTP is focusing far too much on games back within the division. Fix this problem (and other financial issues) and you are on your way to developing a viable financial engine.

03-10-2003, 01:00 AM	#4
Chief Rum Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 41	See, that's the thing, Shorty. Your game there isn't really indicative of the problem. You finished just outside of first in your division, and saw an increase in fan interest. The problem isn't when you are close to first place. It's when you are far from first place--but still much better than you were before. We are seeing fan interest drops for wildcard contenders in divisions with a very good first place team, for instance. Never mind that the wildcard contender might have won 90 games, but because it finished 15 games back of first place, it actually loses fan interest. That is the problem. Chief Rum

03-10-2003, 01:04 AM	#5
Raven Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 94	Finishing 2 games out of first doesn't recreate the problem. Chief's post is exactly what I am trying to say. And if this problem exists for the 2nd place team, then I'm sure it probably exists for everyone in that division as well.

03-10-2003, 04:54 AM	#7
asamford Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snellville, Georgia Posts: 1,769	I agree that fan interest should be based on more than just how close you are to first place. Wild card, a big free agent signing, a long winning streak, a player chasing a milestone, all of these things should give positive increases to fan interest.

03-10-2003, 11:15 AM	#8
Anrhydeddu Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 52	bump

03-10-2003, 11:21 AM	#9
Raven Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 94	bump. I'm not going to let this thread die out.

03-10-2003, 11:25 AM	#10
Schmidty Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cloudy Bellingham, WA Posts: 52	Come on, .400 guys!!! This is a serious issue that needs to be resolved.

03-10-2003, 11:32 AM	#11
David Yellope Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 113	Agreed.. there's no real work around here, because manually editing the FI for all teams would VERY quickly become tedious. Perhaps do like the Owner expectations in Manager mode. Have the fans set a goal (say, a # of wins).. After about a quarter of a seasonm start adjusting the Fan Interest based on whether the team is meeting, beating or failing in its goals. Thanks

03-10-2003, 11:40 AM	#12
Maple Leafs Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 234	There's any number of improvements that could be made to the fan interest feature. But I don't want to lose site of the issue here, which is the game ignoring the wildcard race. Even the OOTP 5 manual refers to fan interest being affected by a team's "prospects for post-season play", so the wildcard being ignored can only be called a bug.

03-10-2003, 04:38 PM	#15
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	This is being examined by the beta team.

03-10-2003, 06:29 PM	#16
Neuqua458 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 33	Just here to reiterate what my guys earlier have been saying. It's really no fun for those teams with a dominant team in their divisions to even continue with the league. Neuqua __________________ RWBL Chicago Cubs JBL Nippon Ham Fighters BL2 Tampa Bay Devil Rays

03-10-2003, 06:34 PM	#17
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,022	As already stated we are looking into this, however I would not want the ability to "increase" fan interest to be too easy either as that would be just as damaging. We will let you know what our research reveals. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

03-10-2003, 08:07 PM	#18
Maple Leafs Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 234	Thanks Steve, good to know. Personally, I'd be happy to just see the wildcard bug fixed, with any further adjustments to fan interest implemented in a future update.

03-10-2003, 08:42 PM	#19
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,416	Actually, this issue is even more important now thanks to OOTP5's customizable playoffs. Any team in serious contention for a post-season playoff slot should see some increase in its fan interest regardless of its overall W-L record.

03-11-2003, 11:49 AM	#20
David Yellope Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 113	bump