BZ 3134: Major problem with pitching staffs

nyy26wc · 06-04-2009, 12:16 AM

I have a major problem with OOTP X.

I converted my OOTP9 universe and was playing my Yankees vs. Orioles game tonight. In the 8th inning, the Orioles went to the bullpen and brought in starter Kevin Millwood. I then took a look at their roster and saw that Millwood was moved from starter to middle reliever and reliever Rocky Cherry was moved from reliever to starter.

After the game, I took a look at the rest of the majors. With only about 3 exceptions, all of the other teams in the majors had at least 1 starter that OOTP X decided to move to the bullpen and at least 1 reliever moved into the rotation. The most egregious case was the Red Sox moving Jonathan Papelbon into the rotation. (Yes, he could have been a starter, but he is now entrenched in the bullpen and there is nothing in my particular OOTP universe that would unentrench him from the closer spot.)

Until this is fixed, I can't play this game. I'll go back to OOTP 9 and just call OOTP X a wasted purchase.

battists · 06-04-2009, 12:18 AM

Please post issues like this in the Technical Support forum! I'll move this one...

fredandres · 06-04-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyy26wc

I have a major problem with OOTP X.

I converted my OOTP9 universe and was playing my Yankees vs. Orioles game tonight. In the 8th inning, the Orioles went to the bullpen and brought in starter Kevin Millwood. I then took a look at their roster and saw that Millwood was moved from starter to middle reliever and reliever Rocky Cherry was moved from reliever to starter.

After the game, I took a look at the rest of the majors. With only about 3 exceptions, all of the other teams in the majors had at least 1 starter that OOTP X decided to move to the bullpen and at least 1 reliever moved into the rotation. The most egregious case was the Red Sox moving Jonathan Papelbon into the rotation. (Yes, he could have been a starter, but he is now entrenched in the bullpen and there is nothing in my particular OOTP universe that would unentrench him from the closer spot.)

Until this is fixed, I can't play this game. I'll go back to OOTP 9 and just call OOTP X a wasted purchase.

I'm sure you'll find a perfectly acceptable reason from the moderators for the AI issues you're experiencing. This issue doesn't arise in new leagues, so it's likely a problem with your import.

Labeling the game a "wasted purchase" on day one is a bit premature.

battists · 06-04-2009, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredandres

I'm sure you'll find a perfectly acceptable reason from the moderators for the AI issues you're experiencing. This issue doesn't arise in new leagues, so it's likely a problem with your import.

Labeling the game a "wasted purchase" on day one is a bit premature.

Well, we HOPE there's an acceptable reason, anyway. It's not like the game is flawless.

We'll certainly work to determine what the issue is, at any rate.

nyy26wc · 06-04-2009, 09:47 AM

I run a daily email baseball news list, with close to 4,000 subscribers. I would love to be able to write an endorsement of the game for my subscribers.

But, this is really a major problem for me. Almost every team in baseball is going to be ruining their pitching staff. I can't continue my league and allow the damage to be done.

Tony M · 06-04-2009, 10:14 AM

Can you post a screenshot of Millwood's profile page from both OOTP 9 and OOTP X please?

battists · 06-04-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyy26wc

But, this is really a major problem for me. Almost every team in baseball is going to be ruining their pitching staff. I can't continue my league and allow the damage to be done.

Let's not hasten to conclusions. We don't yet know whether this happens in all leagues, only OOTP 9 converted leagues, or only some tiny subset of those...

nyy26wc · 06-04-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

Let's not hasten to conclusions. We don't yet know whether this happens in all leagues, only OOTP 9 converted leagues, or only some tiny subset of those...

You're right. I apologize. I was just frustrated and my original comment didn't even come out the way it was supposed to. I meant to say that if this can't be resolved, then OOTP X would have been a wasted purchase, with the emphasis it being unresolvable.

nyy26wc · 06-04-2009, 11:53 AM

Here's Millwood's screen shots.

nyy26wc · 06-04-2009, 11:55 AM

And, here's Cherry.

nyy26wc · 06-04-2009, 12:04 PM

Here's a few things that I thought of, in case they are relevant--

Maybe Millwood's drop in overall was what did it. In case it is relevant, OOTP X did correctly import my settings of weights of 50% ratings, 30% current year, 15% previous year, 5% 2 years ago stats. So, this wasn't a case of giving different weights producing different results.

It still seems very strange that, out of 30 teams, about 26 of them had a pitcher lose his spot in the rotation. And, what makes it even stranger is, instead of calling up someone from AAA, all of them are moving relievers into the rotation.

If Millwood did pitch himself out of the rotation, it would seem very strange that a pitcher with a 4-4, 4.24 ERA year gets banished to the bullpen, while the same manager allows a 1-1, 7.00 ERA (albeit a small sample 2 starts, but this pitcher (Carlos Fisher) only has 2 MLB starts, so he could be tops on the list in terms of a demotion), a 4-5, 4.46 ERA season (Adam Loewen) and 2-4, 4.73 ERA (John Thomson) all get to keep their rotation spots.

It also is strange that Cherry, a pitcher with 0 career GS, who is having a 5.47 ERA season, who averages about an inning and a half per outing gets a suggested role of "boaderline starter."

texasmame · 06-04-2009, 12:54 PM

Very similar to my problem:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...elections.html

ilovethemets · 06-04-2009, 01:37 PM

Simming a 2009 mlb season with the same problem--most notably the mets putting Krod in the rotation as their ace

texasmame · 06-04-2009, 04:38 PM

Wow. This is a HUGE problem that must be addressed, obviously.

Glad to see it is.

nyy26wc · 06-04-2009, 06:06 PM

I also want to add that, scouting is off. So, those ratings aren't tainted by any kind of bad scouts.

kq76 · 06-07-2009, 02:52 AM

Some observations:

-while Millwood is certainly no frontline starter with those component ratings, there's no way he should be a 20 overall rating guy as in OOTPX. 43 as in OOTP9 I'll accept, but 20 no way. He should be a 5th or spot starter on the average team I'd say.

-I don't see Rocky Cherry could possibly be even a borderline starter. I thought I read that you had to have at least 3 decent pitches. Certainly his 15 out of 100 changeup doesn't qualify. If it was good enough, then yeah, I could see him being on about par with Millwood.

-I think maybe what's happening here is Millwood's pitches, while he has 4, his 3 best ones are all not that great (they're all yellow), maybe not even acceptable to be a starter. While Cherry only has 2 serviceable pitches, they're both pretty decent (both are green). Now I don't really have an opinion on what it should it take pitch-wise to be a starter (well, I might, but not for now) and forgetting for a moment about the mind problems of playing with real players, I think if OOTP9 would always have these guys in their old roles, then I think OOTPX should have a conversion system that tries to respect that as much as possible and I'm sure they tried, but it looks like it may need a tad bit of a tweaking.

kq76 · 06-07-2009, 02:53 AM

Some observations:

-while Millwood is certainly no frontline starter with those component ratings, there's no way he should be a 20 overall rating guy as in OOTPX. 43 as in OOTP9 I'll accept, but 20 no way. He should be a 5th or spot starter on the average team I'd say.

-I don't see Rocky Cherry could possibly be even a borderline starter. I thought I read that you had to have at least 3 decent pitches. Certainly his 15 out of 100 changeup doesn't qualify. If it was good enough, then yeah, I could see him being on about par with Millwood.

-I think maybe what's happening here is Millwood's pitches, while he has 4, his 3 best ones are all not that great (they're all yellow), maybe not even acceptable to be a starter. While Cherry only has 2 serviceable pitches, they're both pretty decent (both are green). Now I don't really have an opinion on what it should it take pitch-wise to be a starter (well, I might, but not for now) and forgetting for a moment about the mind problems of playing with real players, I think if OOTP9 would always have these guys in their old roles, then I think OOTPX should have a conversion system that tries to respect that as much as possible and I'm sure they tried, but it looks like it may need a tad bit of a tweaking.

Nutlaw · 06-07-2009, 10:09 AM

Here's the thing: Any players given an endurance between 25 and 50 on the 1-100 scale in OOTP 9 were, intentionally or not, created as spot starters. They need to convert over as borderline starters because that's what they were pre-conversion.

Now, Cherry is getting to start over Millwood because his ratings are better, plain and simple.

If you have issues with the way that the game converted your players, there is an easy fix. Just edit any of the offending borderline starters to have a stamina less than 50 on the 1-200 scale and they will be given roles of Bullpen only.

Chomps · 06-07-2009, 12:24 PM

I did import an OOTP 9 League into OOTP 10. Based on what Nutlaw said, I searched through my list of pitchers (Closers) with a rating of 5 or less so that I could change them to less than 5, so that the AI would not insert them in the lineup as Starters. I discovered that in a player's profile or when using the custom search function, the ratings are listed between 1 - 20, however in the player editor the ratings are listed from 1 - 250. Using the search function for example, Saito shows up as a 5. When I go into the player editor he was listed as 45.

Why aren't the same rating scales used between the player profile, search function and the editor?

It appears that numbers are rounded up also...a 45 in the editor shows up as a 5 in the player profile.

JoeGoNets · 06-07-2009, 02:03 PM

I'll start by saying that I have only been playing for a few days, but wouldn't this be a potential resolution to this, as a patch:

The AI shall not attempt to convert a reliever into a starter unless the reliever's potential stamina is at least X, with X being say, 8, 9, or 10 on the 20 point scale.

Wouldn't that do it?

As an aside, in the absence of a patch, I would think this issue would become a problem in new games as well as imported games, but we'll see.

06-04-2009, 12:16 AM	#1
nyy26wc All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 678	BZ 3134: Major problem with pitching staffs I have a major problem with OOTP X. I converted my OOTP9 universe and was playing my Yankees vs. Orioles game tonight. In the 8th inning, the Orioles went to the bullpen and brought in starter Kevin Millwood. I then took a look at their roster and saw that Millwood was moved from starter to middle reliever and reliever Rocky Cherry was moved from reliever to starter. After the game, I took a look at the rest of the majors. With only about 3 exceptions, all of the other teams in the majors had at least 1 starter that OOTP X decided to move to the bullpen and at least 1 reliever moved into the rotation. The most egregious case was the Red Sox moving Jonathan Papelbon into the rotation. (Yes, he could have been a starter, but he is now entrenched in the bullpen and there is nothing in my particular OOTP universe that would unentrench him from the closer spot.) Until this is fixed, I can't play this game. I'll go back to OOTP 9 and just call OOTP X a wasted purchase.

06-04-2009, 10:14 AM	#6
Tony M Global Moderator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Here Posts: 6,156 Blog Entries: 3	Can you post a screenshot of Millwood's profile page from both OOTP 9 and OOTP X please? __________________ This signature is intentionally blank

06-04-2009, 11:53 AM	#9
nyy26wc All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 678	Here's Millwood's screen shots. Attached Images

06-04-2009, 11:55 AM	#10
nyy26wc All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 678	And, here's Cherry. Attached Images

06-04-2009, 12:54 PM	#12
texasmame All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Planet Texas Posts: 1,565	Very similar to my problem: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...elections.html __________________ Stewarding the expansion TAIWAN EXPLOSIVE GO SALMON in the NL West. As the defending NL West Champions, the SALMON fall to the wildcard Dakota Rushmores in the first round in seven games.

06-04-2009, 12:18 AM	#2
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506 Blog Entries: 7	Please post issues like this in the Technical Support forum! I'll move this one...

06-04-2009, 09:47 AM	#5
nyy26wc All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 678	I run a daily email baseball news list, with close to 4,000 subscribers. I would love to be able to write an endorsement of the game for my subscribers. But, this is really a major problem for me. Almost every team in baseball is going to be ruining their pitching staff. I can't continue my league and allow the damage to be done.

06-04-2009, 12:04 PM	#11
nyy26wc All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 678	Here's a few things that I thought of, in case they are relevant-- Maybe Millwood's drop in overall was what did it. In case it is relevant, OOTP X did correctly import my settings of weights of 50% ratings, 30% current year, 15% previous year, 5% 2 years ago stats. So, this wasn't a case of giving different weights producing different results. It still seems very strange that, out of 30 teams, about 26 of them had a pitcher lose his spot in the rotation. And, what makes it even stranger is, instead of calling up someone from AAA, all of them are moving relievers into the rotation. If Millwood did pitch himself out of the rotation, it would seem very strange that a pitcher with a 4-4, 4.24 ERA year gets banished to the bullpen, while the same manager allows a 1-1, 7.00 ERA (albeit a small sample 2 starts, but this pitcher (Carlos Fisher) only has 2 MLB starts, so he could be tops on the list in terms of a demotion), a 4-5, 4.46 ERA season (Adam Loewen) and 2-4, 4.73 ERA (John Thomson) all get to keep their rotation spots. It also is strange that Cherry, a pitcher with 0 career GS, who is having a 5.47 ERA season, who averages about an inning and a half per outing gets a suggested role of "boaderline starter."

06-04-2009, 01:37 PM	#13
ilovethemets Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 13	Simming a 2009 mlb season with the same problem--most notably the mets putting Krod in the rotation as their ace

06-04-2009, 04:38 PM	#14
texasmame All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Planet Texas Posts: 1,565	Wow. This is a HUGE problem that must be addressed, obviously. Glad to see it is. __________________ Stewarding the expansion TAIWAN EXPLOSIVE GO SALMON in the NL West. As the defending NL West Champions, the SALMON fall to the wildcard Dakota Rushmores in the first round in seven games. Last edited by texasmame; 06-04-2009 at 04:48 PM.

06-04-2009, 06:06 PM	#15
nyy26wc All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 678	I also want to add that, scouting is off. So, those ratings aren't tainted by any kind of bad scouts.

06-07-2009, 02:52 AM	#16
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 10,701	Some observations: -while Millwood is certainly no frontline starter with those component ratings, there's no way he should be a 20 overall rating guy as in OOTPX. 43 as in OOTP9 I'll accept, but 20 no way. He should be a 5th or spot starter on the average team I'd say. -I don't see Rocky Cherry could possibly be even a borderline starter. I thought I read that you had to have at least 3 decent pitches. Certainly his 15 out of 100 changeup doesn't qualify. If it was good enough, then yeah, I could see him being on about par with Millwood. -I think maybe what's happening here is Millwood's pitches, while he has 4, his 3 best ones are all not that great (they're all yellow), maybe not even acceptable to be a starter. While Cherry only has 2 serviceable pitches, they're both pretty decent (both are green). Now I don't really have an opinion on what it should it take pitch-wise to be a starter (well, I might, but not for now) and forgetting for a moment about the mind problems of playing with real players, I think if OOTP9 would always have these guys in their old roles, then I think OOTPX should have a conversion system that tries to respect that as much as possible and I'm sure they tried, but it looks like it may need a tad bit of a tweaking. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

06-07-2009, 02:53 AM	#17
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 10,701	Some observations: -while Millwood is certainly no frontline starter with those component ratings, there's no way he should be a 20 overall rating guy as in OOTPX. 43 as in OOTP9 I'll accept, but 20 no way. He should be a 5th or spot starter on the average team I'd say. -I don't see Rocky Cherry could possibly be even a borderline starter. I thought I read that you had to have at least 3 decent pitches. Certainly his 15 out of 100 changeup doesn't qualify. If it was good enough, then yeah, I could see him being on about par with Millwood. -I think maybe what's happening here is Millwood's pitches, while he has 4, his 3 best ones are all not that great (they're all yellow), maybe not even acceptable to be a starter. While Cherry only has 2 serviceable pitches, they're both pretty decent (both are green). Now I don't really have an opinion on what it should it take pitch-wise to be a starter (well, I might, but not for now) and forgetting for a moment about the mind problems of playing with real players, I think if OOTP9 would always have these guys in their old roles, then I think OOTPX should have a conversion system that tries to respect that as much as possible and I'm sure they tried, but it looks like it may need a tad bit of a tweaking. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

06-07-2009, 10:09 AM	#18
Nutlaw Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,538	Here's the thing: Any players given an endurance between 25 and 50 on the 1-100 scale in OOTP 9 were, intentionally or not, created as spot starters. They need to convert over as borderline starters because that's what they were pre-conversion. Now, Cherry is getting to start over Millwood because his ratings are better, plain and simple. If you have issues with the way that the game converted your players, there is an easy fix. Just edit any of the offending borderline starters to have a stamina less than 50 on the 1-200 scale and they will be given roles of Bullpen only. Last edited by Nutlaw; 06-07-2009 at 10:11 AM.

06-07-2009, 12:24 PM	#19
Chomps Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Taiwan Posts: 445	I did import an OOTP 9 League into OOTP 10. Based on what Nutlaw said, I searched through my list of pitchers (Closers) with a rating of 5 or less so that I could change them to less than 5, so that the AI would not insert them in the lineup as Starters. I discovered that in a player's profile or when using the custom search function, the ratings are listed between 1 - 20, however in the player editor the ratings are listed from 1 - 250. Using the search function for example, Saito shows up as a 5. When I go into the player editor he was listed as 45. Why aren't the same rating scales used between the player profile, search function and the editor? It appears that numbers are rounded up also...a 45 in the editor shows up as a 5 in the player profile. Last edited by Chomps; 06-09-2009 at 12:12 PM.

06-07-2009, 02:03 PM	#20
JoeGoNets Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 72	Suggested resolution to pitching staff problem I'll start by saying that I have only been playing for a few days, but wouldn't this be a potential resolution to this, as a patch: The AI shall not attempt to convert a reliever into a starter unless the reliever's potential stamina is at least X, with X being say, 8, 9, or 10 on the 20 point scale. Wouldn't that do it? As an aside, in the absence of a patch, I would think this issue would become a problem in new games as well as imported games, but we'll see.