Why do players learn new positions at different rates?

[allenciox]

So in Perfect Team, I have two players learning new positions. In case 1, a third baseman with DEF=24 at has spent the season learning 1B -== according to the position calculator, he should be able to get up to a 71 there. After 75 games, his 1B DEF is only 47.

On the other hand, I have a SS (DEF=50) learning 2B (eventual DEF=68 from calculator). After only 40 games, he is already up to a 2B DEF of 49.

Why is there such a disparity? In both cases, the players are going from a more difficult position to an easier position, and if anyone would advance faster I would think it would be the 1B-to-be since their eventual rating will be higher. Any ideas?

[ScudDawg]

I am wondering the same thing, also I've noticed after about 40 games at a new position the experience increase slows down a lot on the guys I am trying it on, (A.Simmons, M.Chapman, E.Chavez, A.Mondesi).

[old timer]

Originally Posted by allenciox

So in Perfect Team, I have two players learning new positions. In case 1, a third baseman with DEF=24 at has spent the season learning 1B -== according to the position calculator, he should be able to get up to a 71 there. After 75 games, his 1B DEF is only 47.

On the other hand, I have a SS (DEF=50) learning 2B (eventual DEF=68 from calculator). After only 40 games, he is already up to a 2B DEF of 49.

Why is there such a disparity? In both cases, the players are going from a more difficult position to an easier position, and if anyone would advance faster I would think it would be the 1B-to-be since their eventual rating will be higher. Any ideas?

I talked a bit about this in a different thread, but I'll repost here since I think it will help.


The speed at which guys gain skill depends on how good they are at their position and whether or not they're being trained at a comparable position.

For example, Lou Boudreau is a SS with a 112 DEF and 100,100,100,100 ratings. Because he's so highly skilled, he'll increase his ratings at 2B and 3B (both weren't rated) VERY quickly. I forgot to check with him, but I believe someone this skilled increases his skill in similar positions (any IF position, though height matters for 1B) at the rate of about 2 pts/GS.

Nellie Fox, with a 94 DEF at 2B is increasing his skill at 3B at nearly 1 pt/GS. I'm not sure if just playing at a position helps or if there's a requirement for a certain number of IP.

A while back, Davey Johnson (20 DEF at 2B) had a 19 DEF at 1B (I had already trained him to that level). But now after 36 GS, he's only increased to a 23 (I believe he can train to a 50+, but haven't checked recently). So because Johnson is a terrible IF, he increases in skill VERY slowly even though he's training for an easier position.

The same applies to outfielders. As long as a guy has really good ratings, no matter the position, he'll train quickly at similar positions. So a great RF will train quickly at CF, but a mediocre CF will not train as quickly at LF, even though LF is easier. As an example, Willard Marshall is a 73 at RF and after 34 Gs, he's got a 26 in LF. But when I had Pettis (104 at CF) train in both LF in RF in a previous season, he increased at around 2 pts/G if I remember correctly.

I don't know if the rates slow down as they get closer to their max for that position or not, so I'm not sure if the rate is constant or not. The rates I mentioned were for guys who weren't yet rated or weren't very close to their max ratings. But I don't remember Belanger slowing down when he got maxed at 2B and 3B so I don't think this happens. Edit: Others have stated that it does slow down as they get more training.

By the way, Eddie Mayo, a 112 rated 2B is increasing at SS at about 1.5 pts/G which is slower than Boudreau's (112 at SS) rate of increase at 2B because a 112 2B is only a 99 SS. So in 35 Gs, Mayo has gone from a 0 at SS to a 52. So keep in mind it's not actually the overall defensive rating that matters, it's the individual ratings. Mayo's individual ratings are 94,85,93,95, compared to Boudreau's all 100's.

Edit: I should add that what I wrote above is all conjecture based on training lots of players, but there could still be more going on here than what I can see.

[old timer]

Originally Posted by ScudDawg

I am wondering the same thing, also I've noticed after about 40 games at a new position the experience increase slows down a lot on the guys I am trying it on, (A.Simmons, M.Chapman, E.Chavez, A.Mondesi).

Hmm... I didn't notice the slowdown you experienced so I'll have to check on that. Are you sure that's happening?

[atabakin]

Originally Posted by old timer

Hmm... I didn't notice the slowdown you experienced so I'll have to check on that. Are you sure that's happening?

Not once have I experienced training as linear as you described it. It's always faster at the beginning than when trying to get those last few points. This is the case when training someone like Vlad Jr. at first (1-2 points per game at first, then an absolute crawl) or Simmons at 2B/3B (4-5 points per game at first, then slower).

[old timer]

Originally Posted by atabakin

Not once have I experienced training as linear as you described it. It's always faster at the beginning than when trying to get those last few points. This is the case when training someone like Vlad Jr. at first (1-2 points per game at first, then an absolute crawl) or Simmons at 2B/3B (4-5 points per game at first, then slower).

Good to know. I mostly kept track when their ratings were still low so that's probably why I didn't notice the slowdown. Nevertheless, I'll still check on this to be sure it's really how it works.

Edit: OK, I just checked up on Davey Johnson and his training rate has increased recently. Weird. He had trained from a 19 at 1B to a 23 in 36 Gs, but now he's a 26 after 45 Gs so he gained 3 pts in 9 games after only gaining 4 pts in 36 games.

[atabakin]

I think I read somewhere that there's a random element as well.

[old timer]

Originally Posted by atabakin

I think I read somewhere that there's a random element as well.

Yeah, it does look like that now. I started training a couple at a new position and paid more attention and saw the higher rates you described.

[Dogberry99]

Age, and specifically a lack of it, also appears to matter. Young cards like many of the Future Legends or the Rookie Sensation Vada Pinson (at least in 19, where I used him) take more games than expected to reach their positional caps.

[Charlatan]

Thanks for bringing this topic up. I'm cross training a couple of guys and it's taking a lot longer for one of them to get up to speed, and I was trying to puzzle out why. I guess I should just stop being so dang impatient.

[Mike Burks]

Have you experienced any of your players losing their ratings if you deactivate them. I've had three player maxed out at different positions who don't show any rating at the positions they trained at, they are back to a 0 even though I train them for an entire year in a bronze League. I wonder if it might be because I deactivated them.

[dkgo]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

Age, and specifically a lack of it, also appears to matter. Young cards like many of the Future Legends or the Rookie Sensation Vada Pinson (at least in 19, where I used him) take more games than expected to reach their positional caps.

Can confirm.

I am training live acuna to be my utility outfielder and despite being a very highly rated LF hes only gone from a 24 to a 38 at RF starting nearly 50 games. GLACIAL