Current vs Potential Ability

[One Post Wonder]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

So I guess it's safe to say you're using current ratings?

Yeah, I think we can go with that answer.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

From what I can see, the best payers do in fact play, no matter which setting you use...to me, the difference is the AI uses ratings (current or potential) to determine where in the lineup a player may hit, or where in the rotation a pitcher is. So, for example, if you have a guy with a current 45 power grade, and a player with a 25 current power grade, but a 50 potential, both are in the lineup, but the player with the current 45 might hit in the number 4 slot....using potentials, the potential 50 might.

that's good info to know. it's not too important for development whether they bat 1st or 9th from what i've experienced.

you'll definitely have better coaching reputations using current potential, if that makes a difference.... if the talent plays and there is some tangible beneift to winning more games in the MiL, then i'd change my previous opinion for sure.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by drhay53

Right, I get that. My question is where do the managers get each player's ratings from? They have weights on things like power and speed and what-not but where do they get the actual ratings values for each players attributes? The human gets their ratings from their scouts evaluation of the players ratings. Do the managers also? That seems likely to me. Otherwise the AI managers would be getting their ratings from either their own crappy scouting ratings or from the 'real' numbers. So I see the scouts evaluation of every player in my organization as "the organization's final opinion on the current ratings of this player". Then the AI managers are basing their decisions off of these numbers.

you'll also see other sliders that could affect the manager. how much he values a scout vs stats, which i think is most relevant to you question. not sure if this is seen in the coac profile... may need comissioner mode and editor. think of those settings as different shades of the overall league setting for AI Evaluation. or any other slider for that matter as a counterpart.

Other things will affect the lineup and how the coach values various players. e.g. a power hitting focus will result in a different lineup than neutral.

i don't know if the ai sees ratings that are more accurate or more of the same, relative to scouting accuracy. i'm pretty sure they get inaccurate info relative to budgets just as a human would.

[PSUColonel]

I am still wondering about this. You could argue that players with higher potential, but not good enough for their current minor league level simply shouldn't be there.

[USF]

Interesting topic.

I use stats - Which is none of the options you asked about. Probably because I play in a league that has hidden ratings and only shows potential.

There are certain statistical categories I look for in a batter or pitcher to ensure success at the next level.

Now obviously if I see a player with a huge potential I try to give them their shot at developing. However, I am a big fan of winning at every level and keep players very happy.

Many ways to skin the cat.

Jason

[NoOne]

if you set your minor league lineups and handle that stuff, this setting won't matter for your teams, but it will affect the AI.

about somethign above:

after playing around if you use potential (and likely current), it doesn't necessarily put higher potential players at the top of the lineup in my experience. the better hitters still bat near the top as per their current ratings. (always use potential for minors, definitely see them at the bottom if poorly rated)

all this setting does is choose between current ability and potential. so, the argument about a no-hoper screwing things up in AAA shouldn't occur. a lowly rated potential player will not take the spot of a higher potential -- unless you use current ability and their current ability is better - which is significantly more likely to occur. (it's possible it's more complicated than a simple pot vs pot comparison, but nonetheless it's the basic concept being employed - same with using "current")

if you want the team to win more, use current ability. if you want players with the highest potential to get the most games started, use potential.

however, if you force roles for better prospects in addition to using the "current" setting, you will get the best of both worlds.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am still wondering about this. You could argue that players with higher potential, but not good enough for their current minor league level simply shouldn't be there.

this is a true statement.

however, if you look at how each works, you'll see one results in lesser potential players starting over higher potential players and one is much less likely for this to occur. (ignores scouting inaccuracy effects)

will it hinder "many" prospects using current? probably not. will it hinder "more" than the alterantive option? most definitely.

but yes, most of the time it may not matter. anytime a fresh promotion is given to a borderline player, they will be one of the types affected. also, anytime the 2 ore more players' potential/current ability are too close that how the AI handles them is incongruent with your preference.

how we promote players would exagerate or minimize this effect further. e.g. i like to promote ASAP - bigger problem for me..

i think i hit on it o nteh previous but will repeat anyway - best is to use current ability and lock/force roles for your "important" players.... but the AI will lose out on more prospects since they won't catch the higher-rated ones that slip through the logic of the "current" setting and therefore your league too... didn't think of that drawback above.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by NoOne

this is a true statement.

i think i hit on it o nteh previous but will repeat anyway - best is to use current ability and lock/force roles for your "important" players.... but the AI will lose out on more prospects since they won't catch the higher-rated ones that slip through the logic of the "current" setting and therefore your league too... didn't think of that drawback above.

While I agree this is likely the best of both worlds for the human player, the AI does not have the ability to do this. The debate then becomes, which setting is more beneficial to the AI? Will current ratings hamper the AI ability to develop prospects, or will potential be more beneficial by ensuring certain prospects are not overlooked?

I am wondering if a hybrid would be beneficial:


AAA: Current
AA: Current
A+: Potential
A: Potential
A-: Potential
R: Potential


NOTE: In my league, (as in the actual MiLB) there are o service time limits in AAA or AA...there are in A+ and below. I wonder if this rile help keep out older more developed players with no hope of reaching the MLB??

[PSUColonel]

The big question here for me, is this: What does the AI base it's promotions and demotions on? Potential or current? I would like to think stats are included as a factor also. So does the AI use stats combined with current and potential, or just current?

If the AI is using current ability to determine what level players are on, that would make a stronger argument for using current ability as a guide. The exception might be rookie and SA ball.

Any other thoughts?

[PSUColonel]

I am re-thinking this (again) and if the players are being promoted and demoted based on current scout grades, then perhaps it should look something more like this:

AAA: Current
AA: Current
A+: Current
A: Current
A-: Potential
R: Potential

[Rain King]

I think the AI uses a combination of the current ratings and stats to promote. So, I tend to go with Potential. An over-promoted, but high potential prospect is (and should) play whether they are above their heads or not.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Rain King

I think the AI uses a combination of the current ratings and stats to promote. So, I tend to go with Potential. An over-promoted, but high potential prospect is (and should) play whether they are above their heads or not.

but if current ability and stats are used, technically the player shouldn't be over-promoted...I could be very wrong though.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

but if current ability and stats are used, technically the player shouldn't be over-promoted...I could be very wrong though.

Sure they could be if they get on a lucky hot streak that doesn't necessarily reflect their current abilities.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The big question here for me, is this: What does the AI base it's promotions and demotions on? Potential or current? I would like to think stats are included as a factor also. So does the AI use stats combined with current and potential, or just current?

If the AI is using current ability to determine what level players are on, that would make a stronger argument for using current ability as a guide. The exception might be rookie and SA ball.

Any other thoughts?

Without a doubt: current ability. the only time potential comes into play is after they are on the roster, it wil then use potential to pick the depth charts only (if the setting is on potential, of course, otherwise it will use current)

i'm nearly 100% certain stats do not play a role - but maybe in a league with hidden rattings they do?? never played that way. i've seen the ai bump with poor stats and good stats, so if their is a correlation it's very weak at best.

it's been a while since i saw this working in action though.. i've recently changed how i handle the minors. i no longer delegate and have reverted to a previous way of doing things.

and just to be clear, the potential vs current setting has nothign to do with how promotions work. it's mutually exclusive. So, don't allow that to influence which choice you use for that setting...

the higher up you go in the minors the less of the need for "potential" to ensure the better players get more playing time, because they are more likely to surpass their peers in current ability around this time... but not always. So, you could probably do current for AAA and not cause too many problems with better prospects' playing time... but it will negatively impact prospects relative to using "potential," nonetheless.

minors are for development... not winning... i mean if you have an urge to use the setting, use it... but if you think about it... current is for MLB-level leagues and/or your highest league in your game world, if below that. potential is for all leagues below that level because their function is to develop players for the "top" league. this isn't rocket science, so don't overthink it.

[Rain King]

The arrows that "suggest" whether to promote/demote someone sure seem to be at least somewhat tied to stats.

[NoOne]

i said it could be a weak factor :P i didn't completely discount it.

it's simple to prove/disprove if you really care or feel it's important to understand. i control important prospects, so it's inconsequential to me how it works. not something i will invest time into.

Someone above said that the higher potential still get starting spots when using current ability? it didn't work like this in the past, but maybe it's been changed since. i used to have to Force start prospects before i realized there was a "current v potential" setting, because i had 60-80 / 80 prospects sitting on the bench in the minors. that never happened after i changed it to "potential". if that really is the case, i'd use "Current" with no qualms..

as far as my previous statement that it will help you "win" more in the minors... that's probably wrong as i tihnk about it more... since all teams would be changing to that style, they should all benefit from having the best current ability players on their team starting. (some may benefit more, but that has nothign to do with the setting and more about distribution - caused by different things not related to clicking potential or current).


----

My mil temas win all the time too... and just fine using potential ability... the biggest factor to that is offering minor league extensions in the offseason. it's actually quite crazy, all i did was start offereing extensions, blindly i might add but more to it now, and my A-ball team started winning .600-.700 every year and the whole system won more as a whole, just not as significant of a bump as at A-ball.

if you want to make the MiL playoffs every single year at all levels, you put a little more time into it and organize positional depth charts to match MiL system (while still handling important prospects as you always do). let the chumps pile up behind each other at each tier... the only players that matter are the ones you like... so extra seasoning at any level for some chump is a good thing for winning.

just a modicum of attention and you will win in the minors. however, the percieve beneifit is being blown out of proportion. i've completely ignored the minors before and players still develop just fine. it is not a very important factor relative to developing talent. it affects a coach's reputation the most, but the coaches influence on players is derived from the coach's ratings, not his reputation (or at least very, very little from reputation).

[PSUColonel]

I think I am going to settle on using potential...if anything for the benefit of the AI.

[USF]

Originally Posted by Rain King

The arrows that "suggest" whether to promote/demote someone sure seem to be at least somewhat tied to stats.

The arrow up can be attributed to their overall rating compared to potential rating for that level of league they play in. You can easily see this by using the feature "Ratings Relative too" if the player in question is fully developed or beyond development (Overall>Potential) at that level you will likely see a GREEN ARROW UP.

[USF]

It is clear also to me that if I allow coaches to set lineups and rotation etc.. they do not look at stats at all.

I always have to go in and edit the lineups / rotation / pen to ensure my best players are playing.

Hmm what are best players - to me that is those players that have the largest potential rating and have a chance to make it all the way to the big leagues. I try to give as many AB/IP to those players because it helps their development to play. In the manual it does say players develop by just being in the ML but in the minors they need play time experience.

At least thats how I do it.

[USF]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

While I agree this is likely the best of both worlds for the human player, the AI does not have the ability to do this. The debate then becomes, which setting is more beneficial to the AI? Will current ratings hamper the AI ability to develop prospects, or will potential be more beneficial by ensuring certain prospects are not overlooked?

I am wondering if a hybrid would be beneficial:


AAA: Current
AA: Current
A+: Potential
A: Potential
A-: Potential
R: Potential


NOTE: In my league, (as in the actual MiLB) there are o service time limits in AAA or AA...there are in A+ and below. I wonder if this rile help keep out older more developed players with no hope of reaching the MLB??

I would use Potential all the way up to AA myself and probably include an age specifer of 26 years old. By this time if they ain't developed they probably won't. In AAA I play the highest rated because, I am looking for them to jump in at the ML to fill a void when called upon (injury etc.). This is usually my strategy as a contending team for a title every year.