Advancing Runners--Ball Very Deep

Gil Thorp · 05-11-2013, 04:04 PM

I just started playing again with v13 and now 14. I play out about 75% of my games using one pitch mode. One thing I'm seeing is runners always being thrown out when you choose the option to advance and the ball is described as being very deep. It doesn't matter how good the OF's arm is or how good the base runner is--they are always thrown out. And when I say always I mean always. Now maybe I'm wrong. It's been a long time since I've even tried to advance runners in this situation.

pstrickert · 05-11-2013, 04:24 PM

I just checked the text database. All of the PbP that refers to a "deep" fly ball is conditioned for "very deep" (the deepest depth, if you will). So, if what you say is true, we have three potential issues (that I can think of):

1. The condition (i.e., "very deep") for the text object does not work right.
2. The tokens for flyball depth (which I have no control over) may not be precise.
3. "Deep" can vary according to stadium and precise location (if OOTP matches up to this Retrosheet diagram: Retrosheet Hit Location Diagram)

I'm guessing that No. 1 is unlikely. No. 2 is possible. The problem is that the language assigned to this token may be imprecise enough to give the user the wrong impression of flyball depth. But this is something only Markus could determine. And No. 3 is also possible. The grid areas with a "D" range can (in some cases) cover a rather large section. Perhaps the ball is hit to the nearest end of the "78D" section, for example; but in our mind, we assume it's hit to the farthest end of the same section.

One thing you could do that might help narrow it down is this: the next time(s) it happens, let me know exactly how the PbP text reads for the at-bat. Thanks!

Gil Thorp · 05-11-2013, 04:32 PM

I should of narrowed it down a bit. I think it's mainly runners being thrown out at home advancing on extra base hits.

pstrickert · 05-11-2013, 04:47 PM

OK. That's a bit different. Runners going from first to home on a double? Something like that, right?

Gil Thorp · 05-11-2013, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

OK. That's a bit different. Runners going from first to home on a double? Something like that, right?

Yes.

RchW · 05-11-2013, 05:00 PM

When you say always, how many times is it? Sample size does matter.

pstrickert · 05-11-2013, 05:04 PM

Hmm. I don't recall other complaints recently about this issue. I'd recommend doing what I said before: let me know the exact wording of the PbP. In addition, it might help if you identified the hit location (found in the game log). Part of the problem is that the user cannot "see" the play for himself (like a third base coach is able to). Did the outfielder play the ball cleanly? Did the runner hesitate at all? The OOTP PbP is never going to give us all we'd like to know. Just the nature of the beast, I guess.

Gil Thorp · 05-11-2013, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

When you say always, how many times is it? Sample size does matter.

No sample size to give you. I just play the game. I don't run tests or do analyses. I'll just put it this way. I've played 25 seasons in one of my leagues and I gave up ever choosing to advance a runner when the ball is described as being "very deep" about 15 seasons ago as it was a sure out.

pumph · 05-24-2013, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Thorp

No sample size to give you. I just play the game. I don't run tests or do analyses. I'll just put it this way. I've played 25 seasons in one of my leagues and I gave up ever choosing to advance a runner when the ball is described as being "very deep" about 15 seasons ago as it was a sure out.

I don't mean to be sarcastic, but the game has been out for a month, and you've played 25 seasons out using 1-pitch mode?

Gil Thorp · 05-24-2013, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumph

I don't mean to be sarcastic, but the game has been out for a month, and you've played 25 seasons out using 1-pitch mode?

Actually I meant in version 13. And I'm sure I exaggerated somewhat when I said "always". However I still hold that in v13 so many runners were thrown out when the ball was described as "very deep" that I found it useless to even try it. This has not been an issue in v14 and I've found the base running/advancing runners to be fine.

05-11-2013, 04:04 PM	#1
Gil Thorp Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milford Posts: 349	Advancing Runners--Ball Very Deep I just started playing again with v13 and now 14. I play out about 75% of my games using one pitch mode. One thing I'm seeing is runners always being thrown out when you choose the option to advance and the ball is described as being very deep. It doesn't matter how good the OF's arm is or how good the base runner is--they are always thrown out. And when I say always I mean always. Now maybe I'm wrong. It's been a long time since I've even tried to advance runners in this situation.

05-11-2013, 05:00 PM	#6
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The big smoke Posts: 15,628	When you say always, how many times is it? Sample size does matter. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

05-11-2013, 04:24 PM	#2
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,733	I just checked the text database. All of the PbP that refers to a "deep" fly ball is conditioned for "very deep" (the deepest depth, if you will). So, if what you say is true, we have three potential issues (that I can think of): 1. The condition (i.e., "very deep") for the text object does not work right. 2. The tokens for flyball depth (which I have no control over) may not be precise. 3. "Deep" can vary according to stadium and precise location (if OOTP matches up to this Retrosheet diagram: Retrosheet Hit Location Diagram) I'm guessing that No. 1 is unlikely. No. 2 is possible. The problem is that the language assigned to this token may be imprecise enough to give the user the wrong impression of flyball depth. But this is something only Markus could determine. And No. 3 is also possible. The grid areas with a "D" range can (in some cases) cover a rather large section. Perhaps the ball is hit to the nearest end of the "78D" section, for example; but in our mind, we assume it's hit to the farthest end of the same section. One thing you could do that might help narrow it down is this: the next time(s) it happens, let me know exactly how the PbP text reads for the at-bat. Thanks!

05-11-2013, 04:32 PM	#3
Gil Thorp Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milford Posts: 349	I should of narrowed it down a bit. I think it's mainly runners being thrown out at home advancing on extra base hits.

05-11-2013, 04:47 PM	#4
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,733	OK. That's a bit different. Runners going from first to home on a double? Something like that, right?

05-11-2013, 05:04 PM	#7
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,733	Hmm. I don't recall other complaints recently about this issue. I'd recommend doing what I said before: let me know the exact wording of the PbP. In addition, it might help if you identified the hit location (found in the game log). Part of the problem is that the user cannot "see" the play for himself (like a third base coach is able to). Did the outfielder play the ball cleanly? Did the runner hesitate at all? The OOTP PbP is never going to give us all we'd like to know. Just the nature of the beast, I guess.