Weight of defensive ratings?

[frangipard]

Has anyone ever done the homework to figure out how much impact different defensive ratings have on positional ratings? That is we know 2b puts a premium on Turn DP, while 3b is much more Dependant on IF arm ... but do we know the exact numbers?

[RchW]

It can be figured out but I hope it's somewhat fuzzy. In real life a player at 3B with a weaker arm may use speed or positioning to be just as effective. If ratings are too definitive in-game I would lose some interest.

I'm curious about something. Do you want to know exactly in order to use the ratings to make micro decisions? Philosophically I tend to look at things with much less detail.

No criticism intended.

[frangipard]

For drafting/scouting purposes.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by frangipard

For drafting/scouting purposes.

Defensive ratings and the associated position ratings are subject to development. So just like real life one has to make educated guesses. I use existing defensive skills as a first order tie breaker for key defensive positions.

[canadian content]

If I'm using, say, a 1-10 scale for position ratings, I have no way to tell, when playing out games or looking at boxscores, how much it 'hurt' my team to play that mediocre defensive player; where would that be reflected?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by canadian content

If I'm using, say, a 1-10 scale for position ratings, I have no way to tell, when playing out games or looking at boxscores, how much it 'hurt' my team to play that mediocre defensive player; where would that be reflected?

Realistically in the long term results. The in game commentary in OOTP sometimes mentions that a better fielder would have gotten a ball but that may be word candy. IRL no one can say how much defensive shortcomings actually affect results until after the results are in. I think we would agree that Alex Gonzalez is not as good defensively as Jose Iglesias but Detroit is 4-0 so far so who cares?

If Detroit eventually has a record of 5-10 in the next 11-12 days then team management will be looking at all three parts of the game to explain it.

[aquapong]

Personally, I've just gone by the overall position rating. I've never paid any attention to the range/arm/etc.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by aquapong

Personally, I've just gone by the overall position rating. I've never paid any attention to the range/arm/etc.

I generally agree but in a player development sense one would be wrong to ignore arm strength where two seemingly equivalent players have good/excellent position ratings at both 2B/SS. Doing this with other attributes can result in a better DP combination where the 2B might not have been the obvious choice.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by aquapong

Personally, I've just gone by the overall position rating. I've never paid any attention to the range/arm/etc.

I've found this to be very dangerous when it comes to positions where arm impacts the positional rating more than the others. Specifically, I mean 3B and RF. A OF with mediocre to poor range/error ratings and a great arm rating may be rated as an above-average RF, but then kills your defensive efficiency by not getting to enough balls for his arm to matter. Those impacts will be measured in the player's ZR and EFF ratings, if you have a highly rated defensive player at a position with poor range/arm ratings. I've found that finding lower-rated RF/3B with better Range/Error ratings have helped my overall team defense.

[canadian content]

I have another issue that just came up during a game, base hit SINGLE (Flyball 89S) and the batter was thrown out at second...why isn't the assist shown on the play by play or in the boxscore? I have no idea who threw the hitter out.

[frangipard]

Originally Posted by aquapong

Personally, I've just gone by the overall position rating. I've never paid any attention to the range/arm/etc.

That's fine in the near term, but it extremely shortsighted to look at those when drafting.

[jfalesi]

Would be simple to figure this out. Will get to it.

[jfalesi]

Determining the relative advantages of arm vs range vs error probably requires a measure of defensive runs saved, like the stat that Baseball Info Solutions tracks. The game designers may not even know the answer to this question.

I have not looked into the game's statistical database very thoroughly, but if location of batted balls and fielder positioning are tracked, one could compute such a measure.

Actually, does defensive positioning even enter into the simulation results? This could add another entire dimension to the game - how much a club invests in analytics.

[Brummer's_Stealing_Home!]

I find defensive statistics to be a very frustrating part of the game. Anecdotally, it seems that good defensive/positional ratings, individual defensive stats, and team defensive stats tend to correlate very weakly. In fact, I suspect that BABIP is more influenced by pitchers in the sim than IRL. And no, I'm not Voros McCracken.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by canadian content

I have another issue that just came up during a game, base hit SINGLE (Flyball 89S) and the batter was thrown out at second...why isn't the assist shown on the play by play or in the boxscore? I have no idea who threw the hitter out.

Game log maybe?

[canadian content]

It was one of the first things I looked at when I wanted to know who got the assist. No info unfortunately.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by canadian content

It was one of the first things I looked at when I wanted to know who got the assist. No info unfortunately.

Can you post a screen shot? Game logs typically show the ball location and always in my experience indicate if a throw was made.

[canadian content]

I didn't think I would find this game as the season has moved on but here it is: