A nickname that needs to go away

[jpeters1734]

That's actually pretty funny

[Andreas Raht]

Thank you for letting us know, lancevance! We don't want any content in our games which is racist or could be understood as racist. I just checked the nick_names.txt file from OOTP 15, 16 and 17 and did not find "Sambo". Then I checked the roster database and found Sam "Sambo" Leslie, Lahman ID = leslisa01, born 1905

IIRC, OOTP would add new names to the in-game names files automatically. So this nickname might have been added to the names list this way and might appear for fictional players.

Anyway - the nick name is in the game when you start an historical league.

I suggest Padreman and Pirates ask lancevance for apologies!

Guys, what should we do with such nicknames? Should we remove them from the roster database or keep them for historical accuracy? Please let us know. Thanks!

[TBPauly]

Originally Posted by lancevance

Not sure if the attachment will show but I tried to attach a screen shot of 2016 International free agent from the DR Rey "Sambo" Contreras.

Oof.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Thank you for letting us know, lancevance! We don't want any content in our games which is racist or could be understood as racist. I just checked the nick_names.txt file from OOTP 15, 16 and 17 and did not find "Sambo". Then I checked the roster database and found Sam "Sambo" Leslie, Lahman ID = leslisa01, born 1905

IIRC, OOTP would add new games to the in-game names files automatically. So this nickname might have been added to the names list this way and might appear for fictional players.

Anyway - the nick name is in the game when you start an historical league.

I suggest Padreman and Pirates ask lancevance for apologies!

Guys, what should we do with such nicknames? Should we remove them from the roster database or keep them for historical accuracy? Please let us know. Thanks!

As an African American myself, I find use of the word to be historically offensive. It's a term that was used to describe Black people, and Black people of mixed ancestry in an offensive way. Try calling a Black person a "Sambo" today and see what type of reaction you would get.

With the game officially licensed by MLB, I would stay away from racially offensive nicknames included in the official release of the game. You don't risk losing the license over something like this. Let the user add the nickname to their game if they want to use it.

Just my 2 cents.

[Andreas Raht]

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

As an African American myself, I find use of the word to be historically offensive. It's a term that was used to describe Black people, and Black people of mixed ancestry in an offensive way. Try calling a Black person a "Sambo" today and see what type of reaction you would get.

With the game officially licensed by MLB I would stay away from racially offensive nicknames included in the official release of the game. Let the user add the nickname to their game if they want to use it.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks! That was exactly what I needed. I removed the nick name from the rosters db now and hopefully it will not come back via an import or something.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Thanks! That was exactly what I needed. I removed the nick name from the rosters db now and hopefully it will not come back via an import or something.

Thanks Andreas!

[Hammercraft]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Guys, what should we do with such nicknames? Should we remove them from the roster database or keep them for historical accuracy? Please let us know. Thanks!

Personally I would omit it, acknowledging that history is what it is and 'cleaning it up' doesn't necessarily improve our understanding or enjoyment of it. It's a relic of the way things were, like spikes-first slides into second base. Removing it may take away an offensive word, but it's like taking a speck of dirt off a window - one through which we view the sport during a time of racial segregation.

The clear answer however is that you remove it now, because the word is offensive now. If his nickname was N***** then you'd remove that, right? It's comparable. Let people do their own work to discover the historical injustices, and not replicate them when it's unnecessary.

Originally Posted by ashantewarrier

Let the user add the nickname to their game if they want to use it.

Yep.

[Padreman]

My apologies if the name is in the game then

[jpeters1734]

Why stop at nickname? Let's take a look at team names. I personally find the lucifers offensive but I simply delete it from the file and move on.

[jpeters1734]

I also find the cities St. Louis, Cincinnati, and Cleveland very offensive

[canadiancreed]

The things you learn. I would have thought they just mispelt samba if that came up.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Thanks! That was exactly what I needed. I removed the nick name from the rosters db now and hopefully it will not come back via an import or something.

You needed only one vote????

Who decides what is offensive? What happens when someone else decides that a different nickname is offensive? Do we post here for expulsion or do we send you a PM? Should we start a separate forum for these suggestions?

When will you be changing the team nicknames for Cleveland and Atlanta? I am sure those posts will show up soon enough. Perhaps your MLB license prevents that or you would have done it already.

I completely understand removing obviously offensive nicknames from the computer-generated database for fictional leagues. But historical nicknames should either ALL be in the game or ALL be out. If you are concerned about the nickname being generated in fictional leagues, then you should change the code so that cannot happen.

I hope you re-consider your decision to go down this slippery slope of selective censorship. As a long-time customer, I am very disappointed by this new policy.

[Andreas Raht]

Originally Posted by Orcin

You needed only one vote????

Yes, Sir. Because of the content of this vote.
Everybody knows about the problem with the Cleveland or the Atlanta team's nicknames and will understand why they are in our game. But if a user sees potentially racist nick names used for a player in OOTP, that's a different thing. If somebody has a problem with such a nickname, historical or not, I'm ready to delete it from the database.

[Hammercraft]

Originally Posted by Orcin

As a long-time customer, I am very disappointed by this new policy.

They're just removing an intentionally offensive nickname, not going all George Orwell on history.

Originally Posted by Orcin

Today...

My 70s league doesn't have fans streaking on the field. No games are cancelled due to owners exploding crates of disco records. Towering fly balls don't get stuck in the lights in fair territory, and birds don't explode during spring training. There are thousands of minute pieces of history that will never be a part of the game because it's not actually real baseball, it's just a simulation. This is one little piece that we could do without. But if having racially insensitive nicknames is an essential part of your immersion, OOTP supports the ability for you to add them in yourself.

[ChromEagle]

Originally Posted by Orcin

You needed only one vote????

Who decides what is offensive? What happens when someone else decides that a different nickname is offensive? Do we post here for expulsion or do we send you a PM? Should we start a separate forum for these suggestions?

When will you be changing the team nicknames for Cleveland and Atlanta? I am sure those posts will show up soon enough. Perhaps your MLB license prevents that or you would have done it already.

I completely understand removing obviously offensive nicknames from the computer-generated database for fictional leagues. But historical nicknames should either ALL be in the game or ALL be out. If you are concerned about the nickname being generated in fictional leagues, then you should change the code so that cannot happen.

I hope you re-consider your decision to go down this slippery slope of selective censorship. As a long-time customer, I am very disappointed by this new policy.

It's called looking from another person's perspective...

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by Hammercraft

They're just removing an intentionally offensive nickname, not going all George Orwell on history.

Today...

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

Yes, Sir. Because of the content of this vote.
Everybody knows about the problem with the Cleveland or the Atlanta team's nicknames and will understand why they are in our game. But if a user sees potentially racist nick names used for a player in OOTP, that's a different thing. If somebody has a problem with such a nickname, historical or not, I'm ready to delete it from the database.

I find the entire idea of segregated baseball to be offensive. Let's erase the entire database prior to 1947 from the game. I guess we could allow the DB to exist, but only for those that sign a waiver saying they will only use it for random debut leagues.

[ChromEagle]

Originally Posted by Orcin

You needed only one vote????

Who decides what is offensive? What happens when someone else decides that a different nickname is offensive? Do we post here for expulsion or do we send you a PM? Should we start a separate forum for these suggestions?

When will you be changing the team nicknames for Cleveland and Atlanta? I am sure those posts will show up soon enough. Perhaps your MLB license prevents that or you would have done it already.

I completely understand removing obviously offensive nicknames from the computer-generated database for fictional leagues. But historical nicknames should either ALL be in the game or ALL be out. If you are concerned about the nickname being generated in fictional leagues, then you should change the code so that cannot happen.

I hope you re-consider your decision to go down this slippery slope of selective censorship. As a long-time customer, I am very disappointed by this new policy.

It wasn't even historical, the guy's season was in 2016.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by ChromEagle

It wasn't even historical, the guy's season was in 2016.

Read post 22.

[ChromEagle]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Read post 22.

Okay, I'll read it