historical minors - how does it work?

[thehef]

The http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...r-leagues.html thread has most-recently been focusing on database & import, so I thought I'd start a new one to ask & re-ask some questions that focus more on how the details of how the new feature works. Hoping to get replies from the gurus, Bigrod, Spritze, and others, like lukasberger, who may be in the know. So...

Let's say both Player A and Player B made his pro debut in 1927 and his MLB debut in 1929, and Player A debuted with the Cardinals organization (which had a minor-league affiliate), and Player A debuted in with the Phillies organization (which did not have an affiliate), which of the following is true?

1. Player A would debut in OOTP in 1927 in the Cards organization, while player A would debut in 1929 with the Phils, or...

2. Both would debut in OOTP in 1927 with their respective organizations, with Player A either on the Cards or their affiliate, and Player B either on the Phils reserve roster, or on a Phils' gamer-created minor league team.


Also, I believe it was indicated in the other thread that, generally speaking, unaffiliated teams are included when there are affiliated teams in the league (Texas League, 1927, for example, would include all 8 teams; not just the two teams that were affiliated with MLB, correct?). Assuming this is true, would these unaffiliated teams be filled with career minor-leaguers and other free agents, and not necessarily those who actually played on those MiLB teams IRL? Or?

Perhaps - or perhaps not - another way to ask the same question: If I start a historical league in 1927, with historical minors, what players would appear on the unaffiliated Texas League teams such as the Dallas Steers, San Antonio Bears, Shreveport Sports, and Wichita Falls Spudders?

Another question, in the form of an example: Let's take Tom Paciorek, who started his professional career in the Dodgers' organization in '68 and spent that season and the following one in LA's low minors. Then in '70 and '71 he spent most his time at Triple A Spokane, and in '72 he was also primarily at Triple A, though for '72 the Dodgers' Triple A affiliate became Albuquerque. Let's assume that in an OOTP historical replay he follows a somewhat similar path and is Triple A material in both '71 and '72. I'm guessing that in the offseason after '71 / prior to '72 the Dodgers' AAA team simply "becomes" Albuquerque and if the OOTP engine/AI sees fit to put Paciorek in Triple A, he'll remain on the AAA roster, which is now Albuquerque instead of Spokane. Correct?

Yet another question: By 1936 there were a whopping 24 separate minor leagues with at least a team or two with an MLB affiliate, and the Cardinals pretty much had a team in every league. So, assuming most of these leagues are included in OOTP for 1936, would there be enough players in the database to fill out the Cards' 1936 system?

A few more... Sorry for the long post but hopefully upcoming answers will clear things up for me and others

Understood that the Indy, Negro, and Foreign leagues aren't included. Are any of the players included, or does one need to import from a Spritze db to get them?

Don't think this one got answered:

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

How will the game handle demotions and promotions for teams in the past that had more than one Triple A team?

Curious about the answers to these questions, too:

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

Back in 1969 the Omaha Royals(American Association) and Vancouver Mounties(PCL) had split affiliations with Omaha having Kansas City/San Diego and Vancouver having Montreal/Seattle. How does this look on the League Set-up page that lists minor league team affiliations because it wasn't possible in the past too do this situation(or something)?

Will it now be possible to have minor league teams to have split affiliations or will it only happen under special circumstances?

Also back in 1968 didn't a few expansion teams(that weren't going to play until 1969) have minor league teams? How will this be possible with OOTP17 since the expansion teams had yet to play a game(almost a year away)?

Another: In 1934 the Dallas Steers were unaffiliated but playing in the Texas League (which had 3 of 8 teams affiliated with the majors). In 1935 the Steers became affiliated with the White Sox. After the 1934 season, what happens to the Steers players - whoever they might be? Do they simply go to the free agent pool (after which at some point they might end up on other unaffiliated teams for the 1935 season, depending upon game settings, AI, etc.)?

Does anybody know if the "feature" - as described here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...e-problem.html - that was introduced with the version 13 historical transactions file has been addressed?

The problem is that this bug can essentially rob you of players (who might be needed to fill out rosters, depending upon how you're playing) by retiring them prematurely, and making your Retire According to History and Miss Seasons According to History settings meaningless.

(I've been using the v12 historical transactions file in all versions since, due to this bug.)


Finally, is there a csv file - like the teams.csv file that controls much of MLB historical evolution, etc., - that can be provided for historical minors, so we can see what teams are included, affiliations, ballpark names, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

[swampdragon]

Wouldn't a pro debut with the Phillies' organization necessarily imply that Player B played in 1927 with a Phillie affiliated team? The question would be what is done with a player who played for an independent minor league team in his pro debut in 1927 and then made his major league debut for the Phillies in 1929. My guess would be that the answer depends on whether the minor league is in the game in 1927, but I'm also interested in hearing from someone who knows.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by thehef

1. Player A would debut in OOTP in 1927 in the Cards organization, while player B would debut in 1929 with the Phils, or...


Texas League, 1927, for example, would include all 8 teams; not just the two teams that were affiliated with MLB, correct? YES ). Assuming this is true, would these unaffiliated teams be filled with career minor-leaguers and other free agents, and not necessarily those who actually played on those MiLB teams IRL? Or?

Perhaps - or perhaps not - another way to ask the same question: If I start a historical league in 1927, with historical minors, what players would appear on the unaffiliated Texas League teams such as the Dallas Steers, San Antonio Bears, Shreveport Sports, and Wichita Falls Spudders? The real ones in the first year


the Dodgers' AAA team simply "becomes" Albuquerque and if the OOTP engine/AI sees fit to put Paciorek in Triple A, he'll remain on the AAA roster, which is now Albuquerque instead of Spokane. Correct? yes

Yet another question: By 1936 there were a whopping 24 separate minor leagues with at least a team or two with an MLB affiliate, and the Cardinals pretty much had a team in every league. So, assuming most of these leagues are included in OOTP for 1936, would there be enough players in the database to fill out the Cards' 1936 system? yes

Understood that the Indy, Negro, and Foreign leagues aren't included. Are any of the players included, or does one need to import from a Spritze db to get them? None of these players are included, need to Spritzify.

Another: In 1934 the Dallas Steers were unaffiliated but playing in the Texas League (which had 3 of 8 teams affiliated with the majors). In 1935 the Steers became affiliated with the White Sox. After the 1934 season, what happens to the Steers players - whoever they might be? Do they simply go to the free agent pool yes

Finally, is there a csv file - like the teams.csv file that controls much of MLB historical evolution, etc., - that can be provided for historical minors, so we can see what teams are included, affiliations, ballpark names, etc.? YES

Thanks in advance.

Sheesh, that's a whole lotta Q's. All answers are to the best of my knowledge.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Spritze

Sheesh, that's a whole lotta Q's. All answers are to the best of my knowledge.

Thanks for the replies!

A follow-up question, since I'm not sure which rule - for lack of better term - supercedes the other:

How about Player C, who IRL debuts with the '27 (unaffiliated) Dallas Steers, and then makes his MLB debut with the '29 Phillies? Will he be one of "the real ones the first year" on Dallas in '27, or will he debut in '29 with the Phils?

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by thehef

How about Player C, who IRL debuts with the '27 (unaffiliated) Dallas Steers, and then makes his MLB debut with the '29 Phillies? He will be one of the real ones the first year on Dallas in '27.

I hope everyone realizes players are only their real team in year one . After that they go where the game AI or human player takes them.

[tejdog1]

Are draft classes in the game?

So say I start a dynasty with the 2004 Mets, and I tank the season and get the #1 pick in 2005. Will I get to draft among Tulo, McCutchen, etc... so on? (obviously with recalc off because otherwise that's blatant cheating IMO)

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Spritze

I hope everyone realizes players are only their real team in year one . After that they go where the game AI or human player takes them.

Originally Posted by David Watts

...something tells me you probably can't use real transactions and the new minor league feature together. Am I right?

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I haven't tried it, but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to.

Granted, lukasberger did not reply definitively, was only offering his best guess. However, the above exchange led me to believe that historical transactions could be used in conjunction with the new minor league feature - albeit with the caveat that historical txns would only to apply to major-leaguers... Spritze, can you clarify?

Thanks

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Are draft classes in the game?

No, but you could assign rookies to original teams by turning draft off more than likely.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by thehef

Spritze, can you clarify?

Since minor league players move around on their own any involved in a major league transaction more than likely would be unavailable for transacting transactionally speaking.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Spritze

Since minor league players move around on their own any involved in a major league transaction more than likely would be unavailable for transacting transactionally speaking.

Sounds like something that will require noodling and tinkering, technically speaking, before a definitive answer is known definitively.

[Swami077]

This is so exciting! And has enticed me to finally created a user name and register for the forum!

I just have two questions on this.

-Would players be loaded into the game in the year in which they were drafted in real life? For example, during the 2009 draft, would Strasburg, Ackley, Storen, etc. all be in this draft?

-Will players who missed the season that I'm starting the historical sim due to injury be in the game? In the past, I have had to go to the retired player screen in commissioner mode and unretire all the players who I would expect to reappear.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Are draft classes in the game?

So say I start a dynasty with the 2004 Mets, and I tank the season and get the #1 pick in 2005. Will I get to draft among Tulo, McCutchen, etc... so on? (obviously with recalc off because otherwise that's blatant cheating IMO)

Originally Posted by Spritze

No, but you could assign rookies to original teams by turning draft off more than likely.

Spritze says no, but I think that may be a communication breakdown and the answer is basically yes. Guys may not come in 100% in exactly the year they were drafted, rather in the first year they played, but you'll be able to turn on the draft and draft guys.

[Bigrod]

Originally Posted by thehef

Sounds like something that will require noodling and tinkering, technically speaking, before a definitive answer is known definitively.

Yep you got it...we did the very best we could do and I'm sure it'll get better as time goes by.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Bigrod

Yep you got it...we did the very best we could do and I'm sure it'll get better as time goes by.

No doubt. A monumental endeavor. It's gonna be fun stuff...

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Spritze says no, but I think that may be a communication breakdown and the answer is basically yes.

Yes I readed the question wrongly. I thunked the Q was about IRL draft order.

[Bigrod]

Originally Posted by Swami077

This is so exciting! And has enticed me to finally created a user name and register for the forum!

I just have two questions on this.

-Would players be loaded into the game in the year in which they were drafted in real life? For example, during the 2009 draft, would Strasburg, Ackley, Storen, etc. all be in this draft?

-Will players who missed the season that I'm starting the historical sim due to injury be in the game? In the past, I have had to go to the retired player screen in commissioner mode and unretire all the players who I would expect to reappear.

Welcome to the forum..a home away from home..
1. Yes.

2. Unfortunately it still works the same way. Got to unretire them. It's an ootp thing we have yet to overcome.

[Swami077]

Actually now that I think of it, the issue with having to unretire players would presumably be much less than in previous versions. As long as a player played in the minors during a given year, he would be active in your minor league system, right?

[Padreman]

I guess the question I have is back in the day the Pacific Coast league was very strong almost at the third major league will they still have that reputation in the game

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by Padreman

I guess the question I have is back in the day the Pacific Coast league was very strong almost at the third major league will they still have that reputation in the game

For the nonce the PCL is at the same level as the Int and AmAss leagues

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by Swami077

Actually now that I think of it, the issue with having to unretire players would presumably be much less than in previous versions. As long as a player played in the minors during a given year, he would be active in your minor league system, right?

Hoping to remove the necessity to unretire players for OOTP17