Defense or Bats?

[jb28]

This may be of interest. Image from OBP | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library.

[soxfan34]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I tried that once. It wasn't pretty.

I just had a gross image of Adam Dunn playing SS and John Kruk manning 2B...

[sc_superstar]

David Ortiz in CF!!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by soxfan34

I just had a gross image of Adam Dunn playing SS and John Kruk manning 2B...

You know those guys with 1 and 2 ratings out of 100 at SS and 2B and 3B and C and CF? I played them there. It was godawful. Passed ball city, the opponents stealing at will and every ground ball was a major adventure. I'd sit there going "Don't hit it to short. Or second. Or third. And no hits into center!"

[The Wolf]

Related Bill James Q&A:


I was wondering if players' offensive or defensive values are mutually reinforcing enough with their teammates to change their relative values for different teams, or is value value? Ok, that doesn't make a lot of sense, so let me try an example...if a good fielding / mediocre hitting team and an all-bat, no-glove team are both looking for a shortstop, should they value the available players differently? Should the first team look to improve their strength or mitigate their weakness? Should the second team just give up on defense and get the best hitter available? Or is the best available shortstop just the best available shortstop?
Asked by: Zeke

Answered: 12/15/2012

Well. . .I don't know if this is the RIGHT*answer, but then, neither does anybody else.*** I would consider the other things at the margin.* *If you have a slow left fielder and a slow right fielder, you probably need a fast center fielder.** If you have a bad defensive third baseman, you probably need a good shortstop.**
*
I think there's a rational basis for that, which is this.* *While we tend to think of plays as "belonging" to one fielder or another (and we tend to measure defense in that way, and we tend to model the game that way in simulations and table games). ..while we think of the issue in those terms, it is easily observable that there are many plays in the field which can be made by either of two fielders (and sometimes more than two.)** It stands to reason, then, that when one player's range contracts, his neighbor can cover that to some extent.. .whereas if two neighboring fielders both have poor range, there is probably an interactive effect.***
*
There is a second reason to avoid stacking up liabilities in the field, which is the curvature of the lines.*** If you increase hits by 10%, you increase runs by 20%.* *If you increase runs by 20%, you increase losses by 44%.** When you stack up parallel liabilities in the field, there may be a more-than-proportional cost because of the curvature of the lines.

[Tram2Whitaker]

Originally Posted by jb28

This may be of interest. Image from OBP | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library.

Surprisingly low for 3b

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Tram2Whitaker

Surprisingly low for 3b

That's because there aren't many great ones these days.

[StyxNCa]

I have a team built on players who are good both ways. I set out looking for defensive players but many have developed into some of the best hitters. One of the extreme examples, I got tired of teams stealing on me left and right so I traded for a catcher who was 20 at the time, had an arm over 100 but his batting potential was in the low 30's. Fine, if he could stop the running I could live with a BA in the upper .190's or so. As it turns out he has developed into an awesome hitter who also draws a lot of walks and doesn't strike out. I know I have top flight coaches but his bat was never something I saw or was even concerned about. My SS, who I drafted primarily for his glove, was also bought up out of desperation to play 3B the same year I drafted him because all my 3B players were giving away games with their errors. As it turns out, seeing as how he is now my SS, he has lived up to his billing as a top flight fielder, but has also evolved into the leagues best RBI guy over the past 4 seasons. Seeing as how we are currently in the 1914 season, it goes without saying he does it without HR's. He has a total of 3 HR's for his 6 year career, but over the past 4 seasons has averaged over 100 RBI and is on pace for 151 this season.

So, my personal philosophy is to look for gloves in the draft. I let the coaches in my system work on the hitting side since their track record has been extremely good. People would probably ask me if I had lost my mind with some of the drafts I have had or for trading for the all arm/no hit catcher, but to date I have been pretty lucky with how those players have developed offensively while giving me everything I wanted from them defensively.

[Tram2Whitaker]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

That's because there aren't many great ones these days.

True. Not like back in the 90s when you had Matt Williams, Dean Palmer, Travis Fryman, and Wade Boggs, as well as others; it was considered a power position. To tell the truth though, I'd still expect it to be higher than average, because of guys like Longoria, Cabrerra, and A-Rod. I don't care though, I still use it as a power position; if I have an infielder who can't hit 20 HR, I move him to SS, or trade him.

Typically, my SS is my #8 guy, unless he has wheels. I try to get GB pitchers, although I won't pass up a power arm in closing situations; SS is the most important position to have good defense.

[The Wolf]

The 90's? Give me the 80's for great 3B: Molitor, Gaetti, Boggs, Brett and Schmidt.

[StyxNCa]

I forgot to mention, tho I look for gloves, the one hitting trait I do look for is the ability not to strikeout and can draw walks. My SS averages 12 k's per 600 AB. I have 4 others who average around 25 K's per 500 AB. As a team, even with pitchers hitting, we are the only team with more walks than k's at the end of the season. Since we are so good at putting the ball in play we have a big advantage over poor fielding teams.