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Old 10-29-2019, 12:09 PM   #441
Cobra Mgr
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When you have arguably the best player and best coach of all time and have won more super bowl rings than you can fit on a hand?
No one is comparing the teams they beat to the best ever. But if you're the 2nd best team in the entire world that season you ain't the Little Sisters of the Poor either.
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Old 10-29-2019, 12:19 PM   #442
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jets trying to trade bell already

absolutely hilarious. like anyone will take that obviously horrible contract

the afc east man
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Old 10-29-2019, 02:32 PM   #443
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Andy Dalton benched for rookie Ryan FInley.
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:48 PM   #444
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I call that progress. I think giving players a chance to have a better quality of life post career is worth it.
That's progress in what you describe, not progress in making the game better. But I'll admit, there are other rule changes that by far do more damage to the game than what I brought up. And to be honest, I didn't even notice it until I looked back. It's sort of like when I buy beer from a liquor store as opposed to on tap. I only notice how much better it is when I have it on tap.

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I'm old enough to remember when Dolphins vs Steelers was one of the best matchups of the year.
Yeah, any games involving the Steelers, Dolphins, Raiders, and Chargers were great. At one point you could add Denver.

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Don't these definitively debunk the myth that the Patriots have benefited by being in a perennially weak division? What am I missing?
The ease in which they win the division. Don't get me wrong, if they weren't still a quality team it wouldn't matter much. They would be knocked off anyway. But when you have a good team that gets a first round bye it puts them at an advantage. Win one game at home against a lower seed and your in the Championship game. At home more often than not. But yeah, the Chiefs are their only opponent this year on the path to the SB.

Last edited by Ragnar; 10-29-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 04:50 PM   #445
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Exactly! I give the Pats their due. They are still good. I have tremendous respect for how Belicheat teaches his players to handle themselves on the field. They don't beat themselves.

But the breaks have gone their way. Whole thing started with a tuck rule no one had ever heard of before. Then you have McNabb throwing up. John Kasay's kickoff out of bounds. Seattle trying to prevent Beast Mode from winning the SB MVP. Atlanta's meltdown. Cundiff's missed FG. One penalty vs the Jaguars.
You forgot lining up in the neutral zone.
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Old 10-29-2019, 05:05 PM   #446
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Has any team given a huge RB deal and ended up better off for it? There are like five RBs ever who are anything more than a product of their O-Line and system.
This pretty much applies to every RB besides Barry Sanders. He didn't need an offensive line, he needed, no, required a spread formation.

Some RBs are clearly more talented than others. But I would agree without the offensive line and system, it's all for nothing. I can say going back to the mid 70s that RBs were always a luxury. Rarely were they ever a team won the Super Bowl with maybe two exceptions. The early 90s Cowboys and to some extent the late 90s Broncos. And the latter is debatable.

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The Patriots have a history of performing down to their competition in the playoffs, see the super bowl against the NY Giants twice and Philadelphia, and nearly Atlanta.
I don't know about playing down. IMO all of those teams were more talented than the Patriots. Yes, the 2007 Giants were an absolute beast defensively when they got into the playoffs. They beat two 13-3 teams away in the playoffs. This was not an accident and no luck was involved.

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When you have arguably the best player and best coach of all time and have won more super bowl rings than you can fit on a hand?
It's the system and coach primarily. The elite QB cannot be ignored, but Brady isn't 10 times better than any other elite QB. Switch out Brady with Brees, Big Ben, Rodgers maybe, and you'd see similar success. It's more Belichick with an elite QB than anything else.
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Old 10-30-2019, 12:05 PM   #447
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Bungals will be Bungals.
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Old 10-30-2019, 04:18 PM   #448
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Bungals will be Bungals.
The Bengals are garbage. Take the L out of lover and it's......
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Old 10-30-2019, 11:57 PM   #449
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Question for those that know the CBA

Why does the NFL not protect picks like the NBA does?

Like earlier this year, when Pittsburgh dumbly gave away a possible top 8 pick to stay relevant. Why did they not say, if this pick goes in the top 15 then you will get a 2021 second round pick?


Is that forbidden or has no NFL GM ever thought to ask?
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Old 10-31-2019, 02:18 AM   #450
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Question for those that know the CBA

Why does the NFL not protect picks like the NBA does?

Like earlier this year, when Pittsburgh dumbly gave away a possible top 8 pick to stay relevant. Why did they not say, if this pick goes in the top 15 then you will get a 2021 second round pick?


Is that forbidden or has no NFL GM ever thought to ask?
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. But the only thing remotely resembling that are comp picks for losing free agents.

Are you suggesting that Pitt would give Miami a 2nd rounder in 2021 if Pitt's first pick was top 15? No. As far as I know there is nothing stupid like that in the CBA. But it's not forbidden either. They can make picks conditional. A lot of this stuff is already considered when the trade is made.

Do you think Miami makes that trade under those conditions? I don't. Which is why those conditions were not made. Miami is expecting a top 15 pick.

Take the Oakland Raiders for example. Don't think the Cooper trade to the Cowboys wasn't in hopes to get a top ten pick. Better them than the Patriots where you'll end up with a 31st or 32nd pick. The Raiders got two 1st rounders for Mack and a first for Cooper. They had to be pretty upset that 2 of those 3 picks ended up in the mid 20s. At the time of the trades they expected top ten picks. Not sure they make the trades if they had to compensate the other team.
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Old 10-31-2019, 09:08 AM   #451
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I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. But the only thing remotely resembling that are comp picks for losing free agents.

Are you suggesting that Pitt would give Miami a 2nd rounder in 2021 if Pitt's first pick was top 15? No. As far as I know there is nothing stupid like that in the CBA. But it's not forbidden either. They can make picks conditional. A lot of this stuff is already considered when the trade is made.

Do you think Miami makes that trade under those conditions? I don't. Which is why those conditions were not made. Miami is expecting a top 15 pick.

Take the Oakland Raiders for example. Don't think the Cooper trade to the Cowboys wasn't in hopes to get a top ten pick. Better them than the Patriots where you'll end up with a 31st or 32nd pick. The Raiders got two 1st rounders for Mack and a first for Cooper. They had to be pretty upset that 2 of those 3 picks ended up in the mid 20s. At the time of the trades they expected top ten picks. Not sure they make the trades if they had to compensate the other team.

I just used that trade as an example. I had never heard of an NFL team asking for pick protections as part of a trade so I did not know if it was forbidden or if no GM had ever thought to even ask.

It is super common in the NBA and I was not for sure if other sports forbid it or if GMs in the NHL and NFL had simply never tried it it.
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Old 10-31-2019, 09:13 AM   #452
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I'm sure it is not allowed. I can't imagine, seeing how often it happens in the NBA, that the NFL/NHL GM's never thought of using it too.
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Old 10-31-2019, 09:15 AM   #453
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When people say things are a conditional 6th round pick is that based on player performance or where the pick is located in the round? Thats the only thing I can come up with, and you make a really good point honestly.
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Old 10-31-2019, 09:26 AM   #454
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Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking. But the only thing remotely resembling that are comp picks for losing free agents.

Are you suggesting that Pitt would give Miami a 2nd rounder in 2021 if Pitt's first pick was top 15? No. As far as I know there is nothing stupid like that in the CBA. But it's not forbidden either. They can make picks conditional. A lot of this stuff is already considered when the trade is made.

Do you think Miami makes that trade under those conditions? I don't. Which is why those conditions were not made. Miami is expecting a top 15 pick.

Take the Oakland Raiders for example. Don't think the Cooper trade to the Cowboys wasn't in hopes to get a top ten pick. Better them than the Patriots where you'll end up with a 31st or 32nd pick. The Raiders got two 1st rounders for Mack and a first for Cooper. They had to be pretty upset that 2 of those 3 picks ended up in the mid 20s. At the time of the trades they expected top ten picks. Not sure they make the trades if they had to compensate the other team.


I also think you might be misunderstanding me.
Let’s take players and team names out of it.
Let’s say I have a team and you have a team. You want one of my players.
I ask for a first rounder in return. You come back with a counter offer. If draft time comes and that draft pick falls from 13-32 then I get it.
If it falls from 1-12 then you keep it. But I get your second round pick in that draft and in the following draft get a third rounder.

That sort of thing is common in the NBA especially for picks made in the future.
I was asking of it was expressly forbidden in the NFL.

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Old 10-31-2019, 12:17 PM   #455
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When people say things are a conditional 6th round pick is that based on player performance or where the pick is located in the round? Thats the only thing I can come up with, and you make a really good point honestly.
The rules say it can be anything the two teams agree on. But I've only seem it in regards to playing time, injury, and player performance.
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Old 10-31-2019, 12:23 PM   #456
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I'm sure it is not allowed. I can't imagine, seeing how often it happens in the NBA, that the NFL/NHL GM's never thought of using it too.
Good point. I know this isn't what was asked, but the closest I can recall is the cowboys walker trade. They traded walker for 5 or 6 players and attached draft picks to those players if they got cut.
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Old 10-31-2019, 01:13 PM   #457
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Ok, I have a little more info. Protected draft picks are not a thing in the NFL. They use other methods. For example, if you trade a player for a 3rd round pick and your team wins 10 games it becomes a 2nd round pick. Or if a team wanted to protect a top 10 pick, they could do it by making it a 2nd round pick of they lose an agreed amount of games.

There is no draft range protection in the NFL. But I can't find anything forbidding it either.
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Old 10-31-2019, 09:42 PM   #458
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Wow. Situation w/Trent Williams got real. I gotta say. W/this situation and how the Jets have treated Osemele, money doesn't need to be the only issue when the NFLPA negotiates the next CBA.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:09 AM   #459
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Conditional picks are usually contingent on a player being on the roster at a certain time, playing a certain percentage of snaps, or (rarely) statistical performance (that's usually reserved for contract incentives). Ragnar is right in that there are no rules against protected picks, and I've seen articles predicting it could start to be a thing teams start incorporating now that trading isn't as rare a thing in the league, but considering how teams don't value picks in the back half of the first round that much higher than second round picks I don't think teams will be too open to accepting protected picks.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:09 AM   #460
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