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Old 01-07-2020, 10:12 AM   #1081
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Granted but having a guess I'd say quality of life is better after baseball than football.
Why is quality of life better after baseball than football?

Please, don't say due to health, because that's just not true. The risks for injury may be higher in football, but that doesn't mean everyone gets injured.

First, define quality of life, because quality of life differs from person to person. Being healthy is only part of it. There's a whole lot more to it.
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Old 01-07-2020, 10:45 AM   #1082
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Somethings been on my mind for a bit but thought of it again this morning watching Moneyball, why does someone choose the NFL over MLB. Theres been a few but Murray is the latest, I dont watch college baseball so no idea how good he was. Now I like football and baseball equally, I've played football but never baseball well not organised and if skill was equal I'd rather play baseball for a career than get beat up in football for a career.
There are examples of some choosing baseball over football too though (Dave Winfield, Brian Jordan, Drew Henson)


Generally, getting drafted in the NFL is harder due to there just generally being a lot fewer rounds in the draft, so just the act of being drafted for the NFL is a greater sign of future success possibility than simply being drafted in the MLB


That said, as we all know, Kyler Murray was drafted early in both. However, something that few think about is that being drafted in the MLB almost universally means years of riding buses from little town to little town all spring and summer, even if a top draft pick


If you're drafted that early in the NFL, you start with more guaranteed money while jumping right to team flights and fancy hotels and more fame out of the gate while also getting all but guaranteed the chance to log heavy action out of the gate. So, quality of life is better early (in my opinion) while allowing you the freedom to start investing some of that money to make it work for you quicker than you could in MLB


Higher risk of injury? Of course. But for a QB with all the rules changes the past few years? I'd say football is the safer bet (higher floor) if drafted early in both sports, personally
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:45 AM   #1083
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The risks for injury may be higher in football
You answered it yourself, I'd also think head injuries are more in football than baseball which would lead to more dementia cases etc for ex football players than baseball players .

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doesn't mean everyone gets injured
We're talking in general, it's like saying not everyone who gets shot dies but theres a better chance than if you do get shot.

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First, define quality of life, because quality of life differs from person to person. Being healthy is only part of it. There's a whole lot more to it.
Being healthy is a massive part of quality of life, I could give you alot of personnel examples on that front.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:58 AM   #1084
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Fully expected him to be willing to trade for him, just would still need to convince Payton to be open to moving, hence the full court press assumption
What would he have to trade? For what, a coach that hasn't won anymore than the one they hired? If the Cowboys were going to trade that much, it would be better to move up in the draft and pick up a QB that can hit a target instead.

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But, underachieving retread head coach is almost as interesting for the opposite reasons, so congrats to him for that, I suppose
Put it this way, I am much happier that Garrett is gone than the hiring of McCarthy. There aren't too many coaches to pick from at the moment unless you want to take a chance in the college ranks or some coordinator. That is if you're looking for someone who's been to a SB.

How many coaches won multiple SBs? Not that many. No matter how good your team is there is no guarantee. Peyton with Brees, Carrol with Wilson, Dungy with Manning all won 1. But if you go 8-8 every year you're not even in the mix.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:09 PM   #1085
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Money means nothing if you don't have your health. Even though football is my favorite of the 4 major american team sports, I'd rank it 3rd behind basketball baseball if I had my choice of career playing. If skill is equal in all 3, you are going to make more money in the other sports, less wear and tear on your body, and you have better control of where you play. By the time you can pick where you want to go in the NFL, you probably have fewer than 5 yrs left in prime shape. WHile your career can go 10-15 years in the other 2.

But things aren't always even. Like I said about Deion in that 30 for 30. He was Deion in baseball. He was capable of decent living and maybe a few possible all-star games as a full time major leaguer. But in football, he was Prime Time. Mega superstar and personality who was one of the 100 best all time regardless of position. There is no doubt the NFL was the best decision.
I agree. But when you're young I'm not so sure you think that way. I played all sports growing up, not just the big 4. I loved to play football the most because I quickly learned I had a competitive advantage. There is no sport that exists that could give me the adrenalin rush that I got from football. That can play a pretty big role in a decision.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:30 PM   #1086
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You answered it yourself, I'd also think head injuries are more in football than baseball which would lead to more dementia cases etc for ex football players than baseball players .



We're talking in general, it's like saying not everyone who gets shot dies but theres a better chance than if you do get shot.



Being healthy is a massive part of quality of life, I could give you alot of personnel examples on that front.
You're right, the risk is greater, but what I'm saying is this:

The average NFL career is 3.3 years.

The average MLB career is 6.5 years.

A player plays baseball, another football, their quality of life is not different at the end of their career.

Injury risk can be applied in any walk of life. A career in the military is riskier than a career selling cars. Doesn't mean the car seller has a better quality of life at career end.

I can give lots of examples too, both ways. I know people in poor health and have a poor quality of life, same as I know people in good health and have a poor quality of life. Health is a big part of it, but it's not everything, and the risk that comes with your chosen employment doesn't determine the quality of life at the end of your career.

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Old 01-07-2020, 12:39 PM   #1087
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A long term study published in may of 2019 in the Journal of the American Medical Association showed NFL players with a 7 year shorter average mortality than MLB players.

Article

NFL players also have to play longer to receive a pension than MLB and the pension pays less. MLB players also receive better health insurance coverage after retirement and it is for life.

It is easy to throw out anecdotal evidence that "anybody can get injured doing anything" but injury rates are much higher for NFL than for MLB, concussion rates are significantly higher as well. Median NLF pay is lower than median MLB pay and MLB careers last longer, on average.

Assuming equal skill and prospects in the two sports, you will make more money, and have better health and retirement benefits from MLB than NFL, again, speaking of the average, not as anecdotes.

If you are an early first round pick for the NFL (like Murray) compared to a prospect for MLB (like Murray) hen you will probably make more money as an NFL player and the money will be more certain, but drop much below the 1st round and the guaranteed contracts and MLB will probably be a better choice, all things being equal.

Of course, if you love one sport and have dreamed of playing it, then that is an entirely different subject.
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Old 01-07-2020, 03:19 PM   #1088
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Somebody pinch me because I must be dreaming. This fellow Matt Rhule comes from coaching at Temple and Baylor - not exactly football powerhouses, I don't believe - has no head coaching experience on the pro level; indeed, has only one year of any coaching experience on the pro level (assistant offensive line coach), and the Carolina Panthers hire him for "up to" (whatever that means) $10 million per year for seven years?
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Old 01-07-2020, 04:07 PM   #1089
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Tepper is the richest owner in the league and coach salary doesn't count against the cap. If that's what it takes to get your guy then go for it. It's not like they were bidding against themselves, he was highly sought after.

He made instant turnarounds in two places. Baylor was left for dead after the art briles scandals and in three years they are in the sugar bowl. He wasnt winning because of superior recruiting like a coach from a college powerhouse who can watch the machine work by itself.

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Old 01-07-2020, 06:14 PM   #1090
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Somebody pinch me because I must be dreaming. This fellow Matt Rhule comes from coaching at Temple and Baylor - not exactly football powerhouses, I don't believe - has no head coaching experience on the pro level; indeed, has only one year of any coaching experience on the pro level (assistant offensive line coach), and the Carolina Panthers hire him for "up to" (whatever that means) $10 million per year for seven years?
I think it is excessive myself. Like dkgo said, there is no cap. So I don't see there being any harm. But no matter how rich I am, I'm going to want value for my dollar. He would have to be very certain about the hire or somehow fearful Rhule prefered another landing spot.
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:28 PM   #1091
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The Rhule and Judge hirings just reinforce a basic truth of American life: It pays to be a white dude.
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Old 01-07-2020, 08:25 PM   #1092
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What would he have to trade? For what, a coach that hasn't won anymore than the one they hired? If the Cowboys were going to trade that much, it would be better to move up in the draft and pick up a QB that can hit a target instead.



Put it this way, I am much happier that Garrett is gone than the hiring of McCarthy. There aren't too many coaches to pick from at the moment unless you want to take a chance in the college ranks or some coordinator. That is if you're looking for someone who's been to a SB.

How many coaches won multiple SBs? Not that many. No matter how good your team is there is no guarantee. Peyton with Brees, Carrol with Wilson, Dungy with Manning all won 1. But if you go 8-8 every year you're not even in the mix.

Oh, I didn't say I expected Jones to try to trade for Payton because I thought it's what he should be doing
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Old 01-08-2020, 12:40 AM   #1093
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The Rhule and Judge hirings just reinforce a basic truth of American life: It pays to be a white dude.
A friend once told me, white is tight.

It pays a lot more to be a black dude named Mahomes, Watson, Prescott, Jackson, and that little guy in Arizona come contract time. They'll be making a ton more money than those two white dudes.
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Old 01-08-2020, 05:05 PM   #1094
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Yes, given opportunity the best QBs will flourish even if they are black. It's a pity the opportunities aren't there for minority coaches. Far better to take a WR coach for a team with terrible wide receivers or a college coach who has a losing record at his current job as long as they're white guys.
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:58 AM   #1095
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Yes, given opportunity the best QBs will flourish even if they are black. It's a pity the opportunities aren't there for minority coaches. Far better to take a WR coach for a team with terrible wide receivers or a college coach who has a losing record at his current job as long as they're white guys.
Maybe because I'm white this doesn't bother me. But I don't care who's coaching and don't have pity for anyone. Make a name for yourself and you'll be recognized in this sport because ultimately it is about winning. You make decisions based on who gives you the best chance to win, period.
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:16 PM   #1096
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Maybe because I'm white this doesn't bother me. But I don't care who's coaching and don't have pity for anyone. Make a name for yourself and you'll be recognized in this sport because ultimately it is about winning. You make decisions based on who gives you the best chance to win, period.
I have nothing against the recent hires. But the above is terribly naive. That's the way it should be. But that ain't the way it is all the time. If all owners were concerned with was winning it wouldn't have taken so long for the major sports leagues to integrate. If all the schools were concerned about was winning, the southern universities wouldn't have waited until I was born before giving blacks scholarships. If people in power in sports didn't treat people different based on race, we wouldn't have had the Bill Peters controversy this year. Just because racists can't openly wear white sheets w/o repercussions doesn't mean prejudiced thinking has been erased from their minds.

I can't say the recent hires ignored qualified candidates based on race because, frankly, no one knows for sure who will be a good coach. So I don't think we could definitively say this or that one was overlooked until that one is hired and succeeds.

But I can see why it would raise eyebrows when they see someone like Joe Judge get a prestige job like the Giants. One of the main reasons we hear men of color don't get hired as HC's is because they aren't in the position to call plays as OC/DC. But Judge gets picked despite having never been an OC/DC. And his 1st year as WR coach saw NE's offensive output plummet mainly because of the poor performance of the wideouts. So if a black man is expected to "work his way up", why is Judge plucked up from obscurity? Doesn't mean Gettlemen didn't indeed find the right man for the job. But if he fails, then I can't blame others for questioning if he would have made the same aggressive move if Judge wasn't white.
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:43 PM   #1097
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But I can see why it would raise eyebrows when they see someone like Joe Judge get a prestige job like the Giants. One of the main reasons we hear men of color don't get hired as HC's is because they aren't in the position to call plays as OC/DC. But Judge gets picked despite having never been an OC/DC. And his 1st year as WR coach saw NE's offensive output plummet mainly because of the poor performance of the wideouts. So if a black man is expected to "work his way up", why is Judge plucked up from obscurity? Doesn't mean Gettlemen didn't indeed find the right man for the job. But if he fails, then I can't blame others for questioning if he would have made the same aggressive move if Judge wasn't white.
This is the part I don't understand. I know it is an odd hire. I had to do a double take. In fact, when I saw his name the first person that came to mind was Lester Hayes! I'm just not sure what that has to do with anything.
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Old 01-09-2020, 01:23 PM   #1098
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This is the part I don't understand. I know it is an odd hire. I had to do a double take. In fact, when I saw his name the first person that came to mind was Lester Hayes! I'm just not sure what that has to do with anything.
Let's say you're on the Bachelorette. The lady is non-white. You aren't one of the 10 she selects from the pool of eligible contestants, almost all of whom are non-white. You don't have a huge ego about yourself as a potential mate. You have a comfortable income, clothes neat, etc. But you can't help but notice that no one selected is white. In fact, there is one that is unemployed. Another wearing jeans, t-shirt & flip-flops. Another w/a police record.

How is that going to make you feel? What are you going to conclude, even if it is temporarily in the back of your mind? Sure, we can't define attractiveness for everyone. But if you're honest, you are going to think she doesn't like white guys. No matter how much she may claim otherwise. You're also going to wonder if your inclusion in the pool was just to satisfy a diversity requirement.

That's what this Judge hire looks like on the surface. That's what is going on with these HC hires. When you have guys with previous failures or lesser experience getting selected and only one man of color getting interviewed, questions enter the mind. Does the prescribed prerequisites, climbing the ladder and hard work matter? In some front offices, I can't say for certain which ones, I'm sure it doesn't. Even if it is only a subconscious factor. Those ones aren't going to put a man of color in charge.
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Old 01-09-2020, 01:47 PM   #1099
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Let's say you're on the Bachelorette. The lady is non-white. You aren't one of the 10 she selects from the pool of eligible contestants, almost all of whom are non-white. You don't have a huge ego about yourself as a potential mate. You have a comfortable income, clothes neat, etc. But you can't help but notice that no one selected is white. In fact, there is one that is unemployed. Another wearing jeans, t-shirt & flip-flops. Another w/a police record.

How is that going to make you feel? What are you going to conclude, even if it is temporarily in the back of your mind? Sure, we can't define attractiveness for everyone. But if you're honest, you are going to think she doesn't like white guys. No matter how much she may claim otherwise. You're also going to wonder if your inclusion in the pool was just to satisfy a diversity requirement.

That's what this Judge hire looks like on the surface. That's what is going on with these HC hires. When you have guys with previous failures or lesser experience getting selected and only one man of color getting interviewed, questions enter the mind. Does the prescribed prerequisites, climbing the ladder and hard work matter? In some front offices, I can't say for certain which ones, I'm sure it doesn't. Even if it is only a subconscious factor. Those ones aren't going to put a man of color in charge.
Maybe I am naïve. I just cannot imagine someone would have a mindset that a person of color can't do as good of a job. That's archaic. Or that because they don't like people of color they'll take anyone as long as they are white. If that's the case then this is the wrong business for you. Do that on the field and see how that works out. They take the best available there, right? How are the leadership positions any different?

Maybe it could be like most jobs, who you know, not what you know?
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Old 01-09-2020, 02:18 PM   #1100
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Maybe I am naïve. I just cannot imagine someone would have a mindset that a person of color can't do as good of a job. That's archaic. Or that because they don't like people of color they'll take anyone as long as they are white. If that's the case then this is the wrong business for you. Do that on the field and see how that works out. They take the best available there, right? How are the leadership positions any different?

Maybe it could be like most jobs, who you know, not what you know?
I don't think anyone is going to accuse team owners of literally thinking "This guy wouldn't do as well as a head coach because he's black." Or that "Anyone white will do a good job." But it can definitely be a sub-conscious thing when comparing similar candidates of different race.

And you are also right that who you know is a big deal, which can make it hard for minority candidates to break into the club. Part of the Rooney Rule is to get coaches who wouldn't otherwise be considered the chance to be in front of the right people.

You can't conclude anything based on one hire and no one knows how any of these coaches are going to do in the NFL. But there does seem to be a pattern that raises questions as to if minority coaches are getting the same chances.

I will add to be fair, Brian Flores was hired without ever being a coordinator either.
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