Markus>>>please take note!! - Page 2

PSUColonel · 02-24-2013, 09:11 AM

You are correct sir!

Honorable_Pawn · 02-24-2013, 10:09 AM

Don't want to detract from the OP but the ensuing discussion about AI evals got me thinking. You mentioned that the AI is too willing to trade a guy (or undervalue a guy) having a down year. What if the AI was given something a little more consistent that takes a player's entire body of work into play.

Like so:

40 20 20 20

This way a bad current year is averaged out by a players body of work. And rating is still given a huge chunk. It will also slightly favor players that have been in the league for a couple of seasons that have proven themselves. I'll give it shot at the conclusion of my current season.

I try to make these kinds of changes in December after winter meetings are done. This does brings up another point that I have often wondered...When is the best time to make AI eval changes that most benefits the AI? During free-agency?

MizzouRah · 02-24-2013, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

Don't want to detract from the OP but the ensuing discussion about AI evals got me thinking. You mentioned that the AI is too willing to trade a guy (or undervalue a guy) having a down year. What if the AI was given something a little more consistent that takes a player's entire body of work into play.

Like so:

40 20 20 20

This way a bad current year is averaged out by a players body of work. And rating is still given a huge chunk. It will also slightly favor players that have been in the league for a couple of seasons that have proven themselves. I'll give it shot at the conclusion of my current season.

I try to make these kinds of changes in December after winter meetings are done. This does brings up another point that I have often wondered...When is the best time to make AI eval changes that most benefits the AI? During free-agency?

You bring up something here.. thinking of trade AI.. when it's tested, what values are used by Markus and the beta team? I could see it change depending on what's being used for the AI eval settings when testing.

PSUColonel · 02-24-2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

Don't want to detract from the OP but the ensuing discussion about AI evals got me thinking. You mentioned that the AI is too willing to trade a guy (or undervalue a guy) having a down year. What if the AI was given something a little more consistent that takes a player's entire body of work into play.

Like so:

40 20 20 20

This way a bad current year is averaged out by a players body of work. And rating is still given a huge chunk. It will also slightly favor players that have been in the league for a couple of seasons that have proven themselves. I'll give it shot at the conclusion of my current season.

I try to make these kinds of changes in December after winter meetings are done. This does brings up another point that I have often wondered...When is the best time to make AI eval changes that most benefits the AI? During free-agency?

Just tried it, and I like it

Honorable_Pawn · 02-24-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

You bring up something here.. thinking of trade AI.. when it's tested, what values are used by Markus and the beta team? I could see it change depending on what's being used for the AI eval settings when testing.

My guess is that they test on defualt. I have no idea what that is.

Honorable_Pawn · 02-24-2013, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Just tried it, and I like it

Cool, can't wait to get to the end of the season. You just chnage mid-stream?

PSUColonel · 02-24-2013, 01:06 PM

Yes, I'm not going to let that deter me from changing it. The way I see it, it can only improve things

Déjà Bru · 02-24-2013, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeancheBlanco

maybe he was scouted in the morning and then in the afternoon :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

So do you have a take on the above scouting discrepancies?

BB was being facetious, but I think he actually was onto something. I always think of scouting reports as being snapshots in time, while the player profile ratings are instantaneous.

It looks ridiculous when it's still the same day, but the answer could very well be that the computer does the scouting reports first, then refreshes its evaluation when you open the player profile, all before you advance the day.

If it helps, look at the player profile as your afternoon/evening phone call to the scout, saying "Hey, I see what you wrote here on your report this morning, but let's talk about this guy. Did you see him in (batting practice / the game) today? What do you think of him now?"

EDIT: Which, by the way, does not take away from your concern or request. One should not have to rationalize the situation in this lame manner.

PSUColonel · 02-24-2013, 02:02 PM

Of course if the profile scouting is dynamic rather than static...exactly what purpose does the feature to scout individual players serve? For that matter, what purpose does the scouting reports as a whole serve? If I read you correctly, you are saying (or at least thinking it's this way) the profile ratings are completely dynamic...in essence making scouting totally unrealistic. Either way, this design was very poor from conception

PSUColonel · 02-24-2013, 02:08 PM

To me there is one easy fix (although there's probably a better system) just use the most recent snapshot in time on the profile page, and don't allow it to be dynamic. In other words, the only time it changes, is when a new scouting report is compiled.

MizzouRah · 02-24-2013, 04:52 PM

Doesn't really bother me.

My scout says, here is my updated report on these players over a period of time, where the profile screen says, as of today, here is where the player is at.

If the scout says Joe Smalls is 77 OVR and 80 POT, but he has a 2-10 record with a 4.97 ERA, his up to date OVR and POT should reflect that depending on your AI eval settings.

olivertheorem · 02-24-2013, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

My scout says, here is my updated report on these players over a period of time, where the profile screen says, as of today, here is where the player is at.

I think what PSUColonel is getting at though, is that what other source of ratings information does the GM have beside his scouts, that the profile page would be "as of today" and the scouting report would be "as of date X".

MizzouRah · 02-24-2013, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

I think what PSUColonel is getting at though, is that what other source of ratings information does the GM have beside his scouts, that the profile page would be "as of today" and the scouting report would be "as of date X".

Think of it this way...

My scout tells me Pujols is 78 OVR and 80 POT, season is going and Albert is hitting 0.250 with 2 HR's and 14 RBI's. The profile screen tells me that according to my AI eval settings that right now he's a 68 OVR and a 78 POT.

They will keep changing as the AI eval formulas do their thing. I'm wondering if you put it at 100% ratings, if those two pages would match?

Markus Heinsohn · 02-25-2013, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Here is a prime example of what people are talking about as far as scouting goes. Notice the date is 6/01/13 in all cases.

I need the league files to see what settings you use. For example, by default the potential overall rating is never below the current overall rating...

Markus Heinsohn · 02-25-2013, 07:07 AM

Anyway, scouting in OOTP 14 is completely recoded and this issue will no longer happen...

olivertheorem · 02-25-2013, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Anyway, scouting in OOTP 14 is completely recoded and this issue will no longer happen...

And Markus wins again!

PSUColonel · 02-25-2013, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

And Markus wins again!

I'm glad...that is some of the best OOTP related news I've heard

olivertheorem · 02-25-2013, 11:42 PM

I know. I can't remember how often you've brought up issues of one sort or another with the current (previous?) scouting implementation.

endgame · 02-26-2013, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

I know. I can't remember how often you've brought up issues of one sort or another with the current (previous?) scouting implementation.

I'm pretty sure it's what drove him to Hall of Fame status.

And I, for one, appreciate the persistence.

02-24-2013, 10:09 AM	#22
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	Don't want to detract from the OP but the ensuing discussion about AI evals got me thinking. You mentioned that the AI is too willing to trade a guy (or undervalue a guy) having a down year. What if the AI was given something a little more consistent that takes a player's entire body of work into play. Like so: 40 20 20 20 This way a bad current year is averaged out by a players body of work. And rating is still given a huge chunk. It will also slightly favor players that have been in the league for a couple of seasons that have proven themselves. I'll give it shot at the conclusion of my current season. I try to make these kinds of changes in December after winter meetings are done. This does brings up another point that I have often wondered...When is the best time to make AI eval changes that most benefits the AI? During free-agency? __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam. Last edited by Honorable_Pawn; 02-24-2013 at 10:11 AM.

02-25-2013, 07:07 AM	#35
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Germany Posts: 24,737	Anyway, scouting in OOTP 14 is completely recoded and this issue will no longer happen... __________________ Buy Out of the Park Baseball 25 now! Download OOTP Go 25 for iOS Download OOTP Go 25 for Android

02-24-2013, 09:11 AM	#21
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,988 Blog Entries: 37	You are correct sir!

02-24-2013, 01:06 PM	#27
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,988 Blog Entries: 37	Yes, I'm not going to let that deter me from changing it. The way I see it, it can only improve things

02-24-2013, 02:02 PM	#29
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,988 Blog Entries: 37	Of course if the profile scouting is dynamic rather than static...exactly what purpose does the feature to scout individual players serve? For that matter, what purpose does the scouting reports as a whole serve? If I read you correctly, you are saying (or at least thinking it's this way) the profile ratings are completely dynamic...in essence making scouting totally unrealistic. Either way, this design was very poor from conception

02-24-2013, 02:08 PM	#30
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,988 Blog Entries: 37	To me there is one easy fix (although there's probably a better system) just use the most recent snapshot in time on the profile page, and don't allow it to be dynamic. In other words, the only time it changes, is when a new scouting report is compiled.

02-24-2013, 04:52 PM	#31
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,251	Doesn't really bother me. My scout says, here is my updated report on these players over a period of time, where the profile screen says, as of today, here is where the player is at. If the scout says Joe Smalls is 77 OVR and 80 POT, but he has a 2-10 record with a 4.97 ERA, his up to date OVR and POT should reflect that depending on your AI eval settings.

02-25-2013, 11:42 PM	#38
olivertheorem All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,919	I know. I can't remember how often you've brought up issues of one sort or another with the current (previous?) scouting implementation.