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Old 12-27-2019, 10:44 AM   #41
Ty Cobb
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Interesting concept, Joe. I like it.
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Old 12-27-2019, 10:51 AM   #42
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It is much better than EA. There is a robust set of cards that are endgame quality that have existed since the first day. If anything, one criticism is that *too many* of these cards existed since the first day, hence the complaints about guys like Wheat being one of the best cards in the game. I mean, a substantial fraction of endgame playables-- 100 Cy, 100 Walt, 100 Cobb, 100 Bonds, 100 Ruth, 100 Maddux, Eppa, Hoyt, Connor, Brouthers, 99 Collins, Cochrane, 100/99 Brett, 100 Boggs, the Arkys, DiMaggio, 100 Ted Williams, and I could keep going-- existed since the first day. Can you name any EA game for which such a large fraction of endgame playable cards existed on day 1?

Alternatively, step back and put your game designer hat on. What is a compelling strategy for continued player engagement that you would choose that is different from the existing one used by the OOTP devteam?

And to further follow up on a comment of yours: Do you think that the last real big content drop of the game, the TOTD set, should be an average set of content? Or do you think that the last cards released should be among the best? Which do you think is positive for player engagement? Or to put it in more specific terms: Let's say TOTD cards were not on the level of endgame playables. To be clear, they're not uniformly the best cards in the game, but they're definitely competitive especially vL. But let's say that most of these were NOT endgame playables. Do you think the community reception to that content would be positive or negative? Which do you think your playerbase would enjoy more?

EDIT: Even just probing a little further, the EA comparison gets more ridiculous. One of the main criticisms about EA's predatory microtransaction model is that F2P currency gains/accessibility come very slowly and with much effort, which might frustrate players into paying. PT gives players a significant, constant stream of effortless passive income as well as a substantial source of active income via collections, or now tournaments, or both. Further, F2P teams aren't competitive in EA models, which goads any serious player into feeling like they have to spend to be able to play the game right. That is clearly not true of PT either, given how many FTP teams regularly win titles. If you're going to criticize game design, it helps to be nuanced and think beyond that very surface level.
Great points QC. I myself am not a fan of the TOTD cards, I think their ratings are a bit overboard; however, I like the idea of PT20 going out with a bang with some sort of end of year set. I understand giving the whales something to go after for a few weeks, but I feel the ratings should have been dialed down a bit more than they are. To me this set appears to be a final last-ditch money grab by OOTP for PT20 more than anything, comparable to something that EA or [insert_any_other_evil_corporation] would do.
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Old 12-27-2019, 12:00 PM   #43
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Great points QC. I myself am not a fan of the TOTD cards, I think their ratings are a bit overboard; however, I like the idea of PT20 going out with a bang with some sort of end of year set. I understand giving the whales something to go after for a few weeks, but I feel the ratings should have been dialed down a bit more than they are. To me this set appears to be a final last-ditch money grab by OOTP for PT20 more than anything, comparable to something that EA or [insert_any_other_evil_corporation] would do.


Though I don’t like the extra TOTD cards either, it is actually driving the prices down for other competitive cards. Lee Smith was once over 300k and is now around 110k. There are many other examples of great cards at great prices. This is allowing more competitive balance. My two experimental teams have even made it to the Perfect World Series.

It’s all about making the playoffs. From there it is a crapshoot.


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Old 12-27-2019, 12:06 PM   #44
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You are aware that most of the current top whales are on a friends list competing with one another, right? And that the monthly whale invitational is pretty popular among that community?


Yes. Thank you. Technically this is the league above Perfect! Should receive a better trophy. Is there a thread of champions for this Invitational?


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Old 12-29-2019, 08:53 AM   #45
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EDIT: Even just probing a little further, the EA comparison gets more ridiculous. One of the main criticisms about EA's predatory microtransaction model is that F2P currency gains/accessibility come very slowly and with much effort, which might frustrate players into paying. PT gives players a significant, constant stream of effortless passive income as well as a substantial source of active income via collections, or now tournaments, or both. Further, F2P teams aren't competitive in EA models, which goads any serious player into feeling like they have to spend to be able to play the game right. That is clearly not true of PT either, given how many FTP teams regularly win titles. If you're going to criticize game design, it helps to be nuanced and think beyond that very surface level.
This is nonsense.

F2P teams are effective in FIFA Ultimate Team, with the same proviso as in Perfect Team, you spend the time trading, in fact it's far easier trading and making bank in FIFA than in PT due to the amount of people playing and the market being extremely volatile but predictable. the main difference is that Perfect Team doesn't require the level of skill that FIFA demands in order to get the most from your team, if you have the BIS players in PT you will win championships unless you make ridiculous strategies.

Collections are almost a straight up copy of SBCs from FIFA.

OOTPs PT business model is just as predatory, if not more so
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:37 AM   #46
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Collections are far worse than SBCs. SBCs can actually be fun since there is a puzzle to figure out the best way to meet the requirements. Collections are just "hope you already have a freehan otherwise lol at you"
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Old 12-29-2019, 06:54 PM   #47
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The PT devteam, even at the chagrin of the broader community at times, has repeatedly stated their devotion to making sure that FTP teams have access to the same level of card quality as paying players. One recent example is the reward stratification in tournaments; it's basically level across the different rarity/expense tiers, because the devs explicitly stated that they didn't want to reserve the best rewards for only the paying players.

If trading is really the primary method of creating a successful FTP team in Madden, FIFA, etc., then that is a byproduct of those games' economies, not a feature. "My market is exploitable by the most knowledgeable/devoted" is not a design feature of those Ultimate Team economies, it's a byproduct of the large userbase. That PT has explicitly allowed for the success of FTP strategies in a game where the only skill is in teambuilding and perhaps model-making to predict the stats of players, especially in a world where the userbase is small and therefore relatively knowledgeable compared to other games, is an impressive achievement.

In any case, I'm only around because the PT time grind is really manageable, even for someone who wants to be a really successful FTP player. I've tried getting into Madden, FIFA, Diamond Dynasty, etc., and the grind was just not worth it and the card quality is outclassed quickly unless you really keep at it. Anyone who's really examined the design choices and economies of both of these games can easily see that PT comes out way ahead when you break down the FTP-centric choices the developers have made.

In any case, I won't make any more posts on this matter because I suspect that people who want to hate on the FTP PT economy aren't going to change their perspective if they haven't already. I'd just ask those people to come up with solutions, rather than just identify what they think are problems, if they're really trying to be constructive and not just coming up with excuses about why they haven't had more personal success.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:26 AM   #48
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One thing about FIFA UT though is that its not a sim. So even if you have a stacked team of Renaldos you paid for, you still have to be worth a darn at the controls.

I would argue there's far less difference in OOTP as though strategy has an impact, its impact is still somewhat random and easily overcome by the high end cards a F2P will never have before the next edition.


On another note, why not have a money spent criteria? Those who spent over $X on PP get bumped to a different pyramid. F2P and minimal purchases less than $X have their own pyramid. Same AH for everyone. Same achievements.
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:41 PM   #49
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because they want people to spend money
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:14 PM   #50
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Good point. 100s should be legit 100s. Ratings should be more strict like with Madden.
The ratings should be like what they are in OOTP historical.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:27 PM   #51
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On another note, why not have a money spent criteria? Those who spent over $X on PP get bumped to a different pyramid. F2P and minimal purchases less than $X have their own pyramid. Same AH for everyone. Same achievements.
That's literally been chewed through 30 times in the last year and a half. Don't make it start again....
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Old 12-30-2019, 05:43 PM   #52
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The ratings should be like what they are in OOTP historical.
They probably feel like they need to specialize within Perfect Team a little. In the simple sense that it is a game made up of different cards, they do.

But that the cards could just be different players from different years plus lives with different looks (and the exact same ratings as OOTP mode) is true...people would still participate.

BUT... the special cards and a few altered ratings and a few other changes might be expected. It's a separate creation from the standard game. First things that come to minds are b's....boring & business. It might be boring without some wild cards....and the whole thing is very much a business.
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Old 12-30-2019, 10:21 PM   #53
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Those Mediocre Teams, etc.

I don't know the details of all teams but I will say as far as the mediocre teams that supposedly populate perfect...

Winning 100+ games in Perfect is only easy or seems easy maybe? after you've done it...and are defeating teams that win an average or below average amount of games. I still remember being whacked around the 1st season at that level finishing 54-108 with a very good team if you weren't comparing it to the very best teams.

If you really look at the rosters that are being defeated, they are just about all vastly superior to even the best MLB teams of all-time. A lot of different things in most cases go into creating these rosters...in the end sometimes it seems like just a few clicks flips tricks and obvious decisions. But these decisions only seem obvious after you've figured a thing or a 1,000+ things out.

So as far as I can tell the rosters at the Perfect Level are all Genius when I take a step back.

Congratulations on winning any titles especially Perfects League titles but if you're bored, it's probably a combination of things, not the "mediocre" teams' faults or the game structure.
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:40 PM   #54
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My point is that someone in that league, in fact several teams, will have 60-70 wins. Someone will lose, no matter how balanced the league is. What will those team owners say? Will they rejoice in the great competition and eagerly anticipate next week? Or will they whine incessantly about the teams that are ahead of them and how much money they spent and how unfair and unbalanced the game is? I think it is the latter, which is why the idea won't solve the problem.

We ran the whale league the last two weeks. In week 1, all 3 of my teams won their divisions. In week 2, two of my teams did very poorly and the worst one had a record of 70-92. None of my three whale teams made the playoffs.


I am organizing the whale league again for the week of Jan 21.



Only two teams that were in last week are not going forward for the next version--they wanted to see how they stacked up against the best of the best and decided they were not at that level. NO ONE WHINED about how unfair and unbalanced.


You are a moron Orcin and are going on permanent mute.
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:48 PM   #55
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While you are muting folks, mute me too. Thank you.
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Old 12-31-2019, 02:45 PM   #56
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This has been a good discussion, let’s not start calling names and get the thing shut down. Happy New Year!
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Old 12-31-2019, 04:14 PM   #57
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Bad form

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You are a moron Orcin and are going on permanent mute.
Name calling serves no interests.
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:34 PM   #58
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For the love of God, add a level above perfect

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You miss the point entirely. Whales don't want to avoid competition. They invest heavily in order to compete with the other whales. I would like a league where the best team(s) have 100-110 wins. In order to get there, we need more good teams at perfect level, or fewer perfect..

I agree. I find that I added much just to be able to compete.





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Old 01-01-2020, 02:12 PM   #59
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Problem; Too Many Teams At Perfect Level.


1) Look up ANY Perfect League
2) Remove all team playing under .500. That leaves you with about 15 teams.
3) Move the "Under .500" teams to Diamond.
4) Reassemble the Perfect Leagues with the Plus .500 teams


Result will be stiffer competition and less of a spread between best and worst team.



5) Look up ANY Diamond League
6) Rinse and Repeat all the way down to Iron.


Granted, this is over-simplified - but the point still remains there are too many teams in Perfect Level that don't belong there.
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:23 AM   #60
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Please discuss without the personal name-calling. Some of you reporting posts are engaging in general name-calling as well. Please police your own writing before hitting the 'post' button or we will have to. Thanks
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