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Old 12-12-2019, 08:06 PM   #841
dkgo
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look at the bears trading up to draft ****ing trubisky, a one year starter with ok numbers, when deshaun watson is sitting there after lighting up alabamas defense in the playoffs two years in a row
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Old 12-13-2019, 02:36 AM   #842
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EXACTLY! And when will that happen?
I'd say that we are pretty much there. I mean, I don't hear much discussion about it outside of people who want to bring it up solely for the point of bringing up the issue. I routinely hang out with mostly white fellas and a few dudes of color to watch football (and other sports), and it never comes up. That's just my experience, but that's what I know.


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When the "experts" as a whole stops suggesting Heisman Trophy QB's should play elsewhere in the NFL.
Is this going on to any significant degree? I mean, there are probably legitimate issues when a guy is so physically gifted all-around, but not all that complete for the pro-QB game. Think about how many QB's of any color excel in the colleges but who aren't good enough for the NFL. Tony Dungy. Nolan Cromwell.

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That comes to fruition faster if Lamar is able to expand the public's horizons. That's something worth rooting for.
What Lamar is doing is awesome. And that, by all accounts, he's a great teammate, hard worker, leader, and solid person, makes it a great story. But IMO it's already come to fruition. Black QB's have won Super Bowls and been dominant for years on end... Based only upon my experience, it seems to me that the only people who are bringing it up are the ones who want it to be an issue. They are not the ones bringing up the race of the QB; rather, they are the ones bringing up the issue of the race of the QB.

And for the record:

a) I'm not accusing Cobra Mgr or anyone of anything here
b) I think Larry Bird - in his prime - was better than MJ. And yeah, I'm a whitey. But...
c) ... as much as I liked Larry Legend, Reggie Lewis was may favorite Celtic of all time.
d) I instinctively root for the white guy in basketball (or the white running back in football). For the same reason I root for the Jamaican bobsled team, Butler vs Duke a few years ago in the NCAAB finals, Douglas vs Tyson...
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:01 AM   #843
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I'd say that we are pretty much there. I mean, I don't hear much discussion about it outside of people who want to bring it up solely for the point of bringing up the issue. I routinely hang out with mostly white fellas and a few dudes of color to watch football (and other sports), and it never comes up. That's just my experience, but that's what I know.
I don't get it. When do people "bring it up" when they don't want to "bring it up"? Either way, just because the issue isn't spoken doesn't mean it isn't present. Most people w/prejudicial feelings don't bring them up in public, not even among themselves. It exists on the subconscious level with the majority. And it creeps into their opinions and decisions w/o them realizing it. I encourage people that truly want to understand how prejudice creeps into their subconscious to take the racial bias test @ Project Implicit. My opinion is that people looking for true personal growth will find it to be an eye opener.



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Is this going on to any significant degree? I mean, there are probably legitimate issues when a guy is so physically gifted all-around, but not all that complete for the pro-QB game. Think about how many QB's of any color excel in the colleges but who aren't good enough for the NFL. Tony Dungy. Nolan Cromwell.
Yes.


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What Lamar is doing is awesome. And that, by all accounts, he's a great teammate, hard worker, leader, and solid person, makes it a great story. But IMO it's already come to fruition. Black QB's have won Super Bowls and been dominant for years on end... Based only upon my experience, it seems to me that the only people who are bringing it up are the ones who want it to be an issue. They are not the ones bringing up the race of the QB; rather, they are the ones bringing up the issue of the race of the QB.
IMO, the majority of times when people say "its not an issue" in society do so because it makes them uncomfortable. Human beings are not humble enough to admit they may have a problem. It comes easier when a person 1) admits they are imperfect. 2) comes to grips w/subconscious means they are unaware (I know that is obvious when you read it, but people still don't get it). So there are things we think, say, do that are unplanned and instinctive. It is not until we take the time to review and examine our thought processes that we may find something we don't like or afraid to admit to. But we have to come to grips with those things. Because we can't change for the better if we don't see the NEED to change for the better.

I don't think Bill Polian is a racist bigot. But I bet he is now looking back and trying to figure out what he missed that led him to saying Lamar should move to WR. And all of the NFL scouts (which was the majority) that had Trubisky as the best QB have to wonder why they didn't see Lamar, DeSean & Mahomes as better. The Bears are starting to look like the Blazers selecting Sam Bowie when Jordan, Barkley & Stockton were available. Deep down, if NFL people are honest with themselves, they may find the color of the player's skin may have colored their assessment. Maybe.

Quote:
And for the record:

a) I'm not accusing Cobra Mgr or anyone of anything here
b) I think Larry Bird - in his prime - was better than MJ. And yeah, I'm a whitey. But...
c) ... as much as I liked Larry Legend, Reggie Lewis was may favorite Celtic of all time.
d) I instinctively root for the white guy in basketball (or the white running back in football). For the same reason I root for the Jamaican bobsled team, Butler vs Duke a few years ago in the NCAAB finals, Douglas vs Tyson...
I don't think race colors every thought process our brain makes. The percentage of people that are racists is very small. But 100% of us are prejudiced. I'm prejudiced. I know this and admit it. Cause it is the truth. And I know the only way I can keep it in check is to confront it. It's why I had to admit I was wrong for dissing Bird all those years he played. I had to admit the reason I didn't appreciate him was because he was white and I felt the media & refs favored him. When I got older & looked at his career & highlights I then thought "Dang! He was good!" I missed out on enjoying a great player. Stupid me. But lesson learned. And continuing to learn.

So I typed this reply because I don't want you or anyone to completely dismiss race as an issue. Just because we all believe all races are created equally doesn't mean we all automatically view them equally. Society has not reached racial nirvana yet.
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Old 12-13-2019, 01:39 PM   #844
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The Bears are starting to look like the Blazers selecting Sam Bowie when Jordan, Barkley & Stockton were available.

It's easy to second guess the Bowie pick but let's not forget Steph Curry was drafted like 10th and will be an all time great and Tom Brady was selected in the 6th round. I think it is more bad scouting than racism.
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:24 PM   #845
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The Bears are starting to look like the Blazers selecting Sam Bowie when Jordan, Barkley & Stockton were available.

It's easy to second guess the Bowie pick but let's not forget Steph Curry was drafted like 10th and will be an all time great and Tom Brady was selected in the 6th round. I think it is more bad scouting than racism.
Are you refering to Bowie or Trubisky?

W/Bowie, I know why they made the mistake. In '84, the prevailing wisdom was you needed an all-star center to win the title. The Blazers picked up Clyde Drexler the year before. So passing up on another shooting guard seemed reasonable at the time. But passing him up for an injury prone prospect didn't.

W/Trubisky, the problem is Mitch was a near consensus, best-QB-in-the-draft prospect. I can understand not recognizing Mahomes as a pro bowler. Texas Tech was not on the national landscape. But Watson and Jackson? The QB that moved the ball up & down the field against Bama? The QB that won the Heisman? I don't blame the Bears alone. This is turning to a call universally missed. So how did the experts, media and front office, let THAT happen?
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:36 PM   #846
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Are you refering to Bowie or Trubisky?

W/Bowie, I know why they made the mistake. In '84, the prevailing wisdom was you needed an all-star center to win the title. The Blazers picked up Clyde Drexler the year before. So passing up on another shooting guard seemed reasonable at the time. But passing him up for an injury prone prospect didn't.

W/Trubisky, the problem is Mitch was a near consensus, best-QB-in-the-draft prospect. I can understand not recognizing Mahomes as a pro bowler. Texas Tech was not on the national landscape. But Watson and Jackson? The QB that moved the ball up & down the field against Bama? The QB that won the Heisman? I don't blame the Bears alone. This is turning to a call universally missed. So how did the experts, media and front office, let THAT happen?
I think traditional pocket passers are favored over mobile quarterbacks - traditionally- due to injury concerns. I have a feeling that will change.
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Old 12-13-2019, 05:33 PM   #847
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I think traditional pocket passers are favored over mobile quarterbacks - traditionally- due to injury concerns. I have a feeling that will change.
It should change. The "tradition" makes the wrong assumption the play call works every time. But when it doesn't, there isn't an out if you have a statue. QB's who can move are able to improvise when the play breaks down, someone misses an assignment, or the defense happens to call the right counter. I prefer QB's who make plays with their arms 1st. I don't want my QB's best asset to be his legs. Thinking quick on his feet is better than being quick on his feet. Have the ability to carry it down the field, but don't let it be the first option.

And BTW, Trubisky's running ability is underrated. That's another area where race bias might be playing a part. If they put Mitch in an offense that allowed him to move around instead of trying to make him stay in the pocket, he might improve. But since he's white, they may be trying to turn Russell WIlson into Peyton Manning.
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Old 12-13-2019, 07:21 PM   #848
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It should change. The "tradition" makes the wrong assumption the play call works every time. But when it doesn't, there isn't an out if you have a statue. QB's who can move are able to improvise when the play breaks down, someone misses an assignment, or the defense happens to call the right counter. I prefer QB's who make plays with their arms 1st. I don't want my QB's best asset to be his legs. Thinking quick on his feet is better than being quick on his feet. Have the ability to carry it down the field, but don't let it be the first option.

And BTW, Trubisky's running ability is underrated. That's another area where race bias might be playing a part. If they put Mitch in an offense that allowed him to move around instead of trying to make him stay in the pocket, he might improve. But since he's white, they may be trying to turn Russell WIlson into Peyton Manning.
I think you're reading too much into the race thing. Mobile quarterbacks do tend to be black.
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Old 12-13-2019, 07:45 PM   #849
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I think you're reading too much into the race thing. Mobile quarterbacks do tend to be black.
Fran Tarkenton. Steve Young. John Elway. Bobby Douglass. Steve Grogan. Daniel Jones.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:13 PM   #850
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Fran Tarkenton. Steve Young. John Elway. Bobby Douglass. Steve Grogan. Daniel Jones.
Well, he had to be mobile so he could chase down all the defenders he kept throwing the ball to.
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Old 12-13-2019, 08:40 PM   #851
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Fran Tarkenton. Steve Young. John Elway. Bobby Douglass. Steve Grogan. Daniel Jones.

That was when there was fewer black quarterbacks in general.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:53 AM   #852
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That was when there was fewer black quarterbacks in general.
The point being made is that white mobile QB's are not a new phenomenon. So OC's shouldn't be caught off guard. They should look at the skills, not the skin, see what they do best, and come up with a gameplan that best meshes with their talents. Be open to the possibility that something may not fit a preconceived norm
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Old 12-14-2019, 09:47 AM   #853
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It's easy to slam the Bears for taking Trubisky over Mahomes and Watson now but you have to remember just about every draft prognosticator had Trubisky #1 in what was considered a boom-or-bust draft class at QB. And of course it has to be taken into consideration that just because Watson ended up booming and Mahomes ended up exploding, doesn't mean they would have in Chicago. It's one of the factors I can never understand people ignoring when they would say things like 'LUL here's every quarterback that the Browns are absolute morons for passing on'.

Having said that, I got to see a lot of the Bears early in the season and I don't think I've ever seen a more consistently inaccurate quarterback than Mitch Trubisky in those first few games. And I was a Jets fan through the entirety of the Butt Fumble Sanchez era.
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:14 PM   #854
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In just looking at Twitter footage of the Chargers "home" game against the Vikings and seeing the entire stadium being purple, I believe I will reestablish the popular belief that moving the Chargers out of San Diego was classically and bordering epically DUUUUUMMMB!
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:50 PM   #855
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In just looking at Twitter footage of the Chargers "home" game against the Vikings and seeing the entire stadium being purple, I believe I will reestablish the popular belief that moving the Chargers out of San Diego was classically and bordering epically DUUUUUMMMB!
Spanos' pride backed him into a corner.
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Old 12-15-2019, 05:58 PM   #856
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In just looking at Twitter footage of the Chargers "home" game against the Vikings and seeing the entire stadium being purple, I believe I will reestablish the popular belief that moving the Chargers out of San Diego was classically and bordering epically DUUUUUMMMB!
1) I've watched a few Chargers games and all with at least the 40 minutes highlights, 9 times out of 10 the loudest fans are the so called road fans. Infact if not for the Chargers stadium announcer screaming his head off sometimes it would be like a ghostown Chargers wise.

2) As a non American it goes over my head how easy it seems for teams to change locations, I'd say San Diego Chargers as they were would be akin to a team like Everton. Trust me if Everton said they were moving it would go political, not state politics but national politics
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:12 PM   #857
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Chargers are 26-19 since moving to LA.

Home record - 12-10
Road record - 14-9
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Old 12-15-2019, 06:23 PM   #858
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You gotta "hang him". I'm listening to these Fox guys try to absolve the Patriots from guilt simply because they can't fathom Belichek being that stupid. Like was said earlier, people don't have to have a need in order to do something illegal. Greed takes over all common sense and decency. I would just love for someone to explain why this Pats videographer would film footage he doesn't need to accomplish his stated task if it wasn't for the Pats coaches. Hang him.
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Old 12-16-2019, 03:40 AM   #859
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I must say, sports fans as a group can be quite classy at times. It does my heart good when I see things like this happen:

Name:  Image0119.jpg
Views: 131
Size:  112.2 KB

It was quite a send-off at the end of the game.

https://www.newsday.com/sports/colum...nts-1.39555295
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Old 12-16-2019, 09:18 AM   #860
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Spanos' pride backed him into a corner.
Actually, apparently it was the owners that backed Spanos into the corner. He wanted to pair with the Raiders.

If anyone has 10 minutes and the interest to read a long article about the NFL's move back into Los Angeles, this article is a fantastic read, even if it's written by Seth Wickersham: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ts-los-angeles
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