Adrian Beltre has no position rating...

[gosensgo101]

I usually just edit Beltre's double play rating up a bit once I realize that he's lost his third base rating.

[SirMichaelJordan]

My problem with this is that the AI should list him as a DH (AI never do this) or even 1B if he's in a NL team. If this was an AI team, Beltran most likely would still be listed as a 3rd Baseman despite not having a rating there and would play 3B everyday putting up horrible defensive stats hurting the AI's chances at winning.

I can understand Beltran losing his position rating especially with his age and the fact that he's been injured but the AI needs to make smart position changes.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

My problem with this is that the AI should list him as a DH (AI never do this) or even 1B if he's in a NL team. If this was an AI team, Beltran most likely would still be listed as a 3rd Baseman despite not having a rating there and would play 3B everyday putting up horrible defensive stats hurting the AI's chances at winning.

I can understand Beltran losing his position rating especially with his age and the fact that he's been injured but the AI needs to make smart position changes.

I really hope Markus see's your post.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I really hope Markus see's your post.

I often have to edit aging old infielders who lost all range to either corner OF, DH or 1B otherwise I would run into these problems. Their Zone ratings if left at their original positions would be abysmal.

Or in Beltran's case as he apparently still has his range, his fielding % and efficiency would be horrible.

[KentCol]

Same thing happened to Beltre when I went to 2015 season. He a played the whole 2014 season and had a big year.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by KentCol

Same thing happened to Beltre when I went to 2015 season. He a played the whole 2014 season and had a big year.

It makes no sense since a third baseman could have zero ability at turning the double play and still be a great third baseman.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

But my scout still rates his range and arm quite high. I don't get why he wouldn't still be rated at 3rd. I mean he went from GG caliber 3rd base to unable to play 3rd base in one season?

Whats his DP rating? I had Lando Calrissian in my EBL league and by age 35 he had no rating but still was a serviceable 3B committing only 8 E in his final season. His DP rating had fallen below what was needed even as a 3B but his arm was still a 6 and range was still a 5 or 7 forgot which it was.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by The Game

Whats his DP rating? I had Lando Calrissian in my EBL league and by age 35 he had no rating but still was a serviceable 3B committing only 8 E in his final season. His DP rating had fallen below what was needed even as a 3B but his arm was still a 6 and range was still a 5 or 7 forgot which it was.

Yes his DP rating dropped to a 1 on a 1-20 scale but third basemen don't turn double plays, they start them so not sure why that rating has any relevance to the position.

[Ike348]

It's just a matter of what the "Turn Double Plays" rating actually descibes. IMO, only shortstops/2Bs actually "turn" double plays, but I could see the Turn DP rating for 3B describing his ability to throw to second, not first. It would be silly, but I could see it.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I often have to edit aging old infielders who lost all range to either corner OF, DH or 1B otherwise I would run into these problems. Their Zone ratings if left at their original positions would be abysmal.

Or in Beltran's case as he apparently still has his range, his fielding % and efficiency would be horrible.

I feel the need to point out that Adrian Beltre and Carlos Beltran are different people.

[bwburke94]

3B do occasionally need to "turn" a double play in the 2B sense, during infield shifts, but it isn't often enough for a limit to be needed.

[01010010]

ignore

[yabanci]

I've always considered this "no position rating" thing a bug, because it makes no sense. I usually notice it with second basemen.

For example, I have a historical career started in 1946 and now in 1949. Jackie Robinson has no position rating for second base, yet that's where his AI team lists him and plays him.

In the editor, his internal ratings (with max position experience) are:

Infield Range: 123
Infield Error: 58
Infield Arm: 126
Turning Double Plays: 129

Resulting Rating: 106

The fielding results don't seem to be a big disaster despite the lack of positional rating:

1948 ootp: .975 PCT, 5.23 RF
1948 real life: .980 PCT, 6.04 RF

1949 ootp (90 games): .984 PCT, 4.97 RF
1949 real life: .981 PCT, 5.88 RF

My first thought was that maybe his infield error rating of 58 fell below some threshold, but there are other players with lower internal editor error and other defensive ratings who *do* get a position rating, for example:

Frankie Gustine

Infield Range: 97
Infield Error: 56
Infield Arm: 84
Turning Double Plays: 111

Resulting Rating: 74

He gets a second base positional rating of 2 on a 1-5 scale.

It doesn't make sense at all. All of Robinson's internal ratings are higher than Gustine's and both have max experience, yet Gustine gets a positional rating and Robinson doesn't. I have no clue why.

If I change Jackie Robinson's error rating to 200, he still doesn't get a positional rating, though now it occurs to me that if I left the change there perhaps he would get a positional rating when he's rescouted at some point, I don't know.

I noticed this type of thing a few versions back and once had emails back and forth with support about it, but nothing ever came of it.

So to make a long story short, I just ignore it and consider it a bug that's annoying but doesn't seem to have devastating effects on outcomes.

[Pacoheadley]

Originally Posted by yabanci

I've always considered this "no position rating" thing a bug, because it makes no sense. I usually notice it with second basemen.

For example, I have a historical career started in 1946 and now in 1949. Jackie Robinson has no position rating for second base, yet that's where his AI team lists him and plays him.

In the editor, his internal ratings (with max position experience) are:

Infield Range: 123
Infield Error: 58
Infield Arm: 126
Turning Double Plays: 129

Resulting Rating: 106

The fielding results don't seem to be a big disaster despite the lack of positional rating:

1948 ootp: .975 PCT, 5.23 RF
1948 real life: .980 PCT, 6.04 RF

1949 ootp (90 games): .984 PCT, 4.97 RF
1949 real life: .981 PCT, 5.88 RF

My first thought was that maybe his infield error rating of 58 fell below some threshold, but there are other players with lower internal editor error and other defensive ratings who *do* get a position rating, for example:

Frankie Gustine

Infield Range: 97
Infield Error: 56
Infield Arm: 84
Turning Double Plays: 111

Resulting Rating: 74

He gets a second base positional rating of 2 on a 1-5 scale.

It doesn't make sense at all. All of Robinson's internal ratings are higher than Gustine's and both have max experience, yet Gustine gets a positional rating and Robinson doesn't. I have no clue why.

If I change Jackie Robinson's error rating to 200, he still doesn't get a positional rating, though now it occurs to me that if I left the change there perhaps he would get a positional rating when he's rescouted at some point, I don't know.

I noticed this type of thing a few versions back and once had emails back and forth with support about it, but nothing ever came of it.

So to make a long story short, I just ignore it and consider it a bug that's annoying but doesn't seem to have devastating effects on outcomes.

The reason Jackie didn't get a position rating but Gustine did is because of your scout. The game is programmed to assume that, for example, if your scout says the error rating is under 60 (although I believe it is 50 in the editor), he won't give the player a rating at the position, as a hint not to play him there. That doesn't mean he loses all ability, but your scout believes he would be too much of a hindrance, and scouting inaccuracy is the reason Jackie didn't show up but Gustine did.

Changing the error to 200 didn't do anything because you needed to do a rescout on him afterwords to see the change.

The same holds true for different numbers for range, arm, turn DB, etc., depending on the position. Again, no position rating does NOT always mean they will be a disaster, but it does a decent job of simulating a somewhat fast defensive decline, which does happen in real life occasionally.

[yabanci]

Thanks, that sounds like a good and reasonable explanation.

[The Wolf]

FYI

From the manual:

Turn Double Play

Turn Double Play is a measure of how well infielders, pitchers, and catchers can turn infield double plays. Players with high Turn Double Play ratings are more likely to successfully turn double plays when given the opportunity.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

FYI

From the manual:

Turn Double Play

Turn Double Play is a measure of how well infielders, pitchers, and catchers can turn infield double plays. Players with high Turn Double Play ratings are more likely to successfully turn double plays when given the opportunity.

Ok. I understand the term "turn double play" to mean to catch the ball at a base, typically second or home, and then turn and make an accurate, strong throw to first, thus turning the double play. Is that what the game means?

[rpriske]

Apparently not. If that was the case then pitchers wouldn't be mentioned.

It looks like they are referring to starting double plays as well.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by rpriske

Apparently not. If that was the case then pitchers wouldn't be mentioned.

It looks like they are referring to starting double plays as well.

I don't see how the skill of starting a double play is any different than the skill of an infield arm assuming that already incorporates throwing accuracy. It seems like a redundant rating.

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I don't see how the skill of starting a double play is any different than the skill of an infield arm assuming that already incorporates throwing accuracy. It seems like a redundant rating.

I think you are over analyzing the situation a bit. There are a couple facts that apply here:

1) Turn DP rating applies to all workings of DPs, not just the middle relay portion. It is less relevant to 3Bs though since the opportunities are lower.
2) The game has threshold for the various ratings to be rated at a position.

Beltre fell below and "lost" his rating. That doesn't necessarily mean he can't play 3B. Heck, Miguel Cabrera played 3B last year. Bobby Bonilla played 3B on a team that won the World Series and he couldn't even bend his knees. It really just means your scout thinks he probably shouldn't play 3B. But you can play him anywhere you want. He might do fine.

It isn't a redundant rating because it still applies to him. If you put him at 2B, he wouldn't be very successful. And at 3B, you won't get many 5-4-3 DPs.

Point is, don't get hung up on the word "turn". It's a DP rating.