Give the Guys More Life!

[ChiefWahoo]

I don't know, maybe it's just the passionate The Sims series fan inside of me, but I think that our players in OOTP could use even more intricate detail in their personalities and off-field makeups. I love how in Football Manager, players have to learn to speak foreign tongues, that would be an interesting implementation, as would be the ability to talk to or communicate with our players and coaches. Also, what if the game took storylines to a how new level... player information could show if the player is married, in a relationship, what religion they follow, political beliefs, etc... not as a way to make anyone uncomfortable, but as a way to further make the universe feel like its living and breathing. Maybe the next Sandy Koufax refuses to pitch in the World Series because it falls on Yom Kippur? Maybe a superstar shocks the world and becomes the Michael Sam of baseball? We could even keep tabs on a player's criminal history or other colorful off-field incidents... having players linked to crime organizations or other corruptions like Shoeless Joe. I don't know, maybe these things are too easily offensive, but I would love to see this sorta stuff as an optional thing. Thoughts?

[dmacgreg37]

I can see where the interest for some of that would be. For me, it's not something I'd be too into. I know the language thing is there in FM, but I've never actually noticed it making any discernible difference to the game. I don't even look at the language line to be honest in FM.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

I think what I'm mostly interested in is having different things that are already in OOTP better relate to each other in a world-driven way. This includes things like storylines, player personalities, the financial system, and not-yet-implemented things like actual working winter leagues, etc. To the extent that Markus and his team can keep pushing the needle on that, I think it will help players in the game feel like they have more "life" (imagine a human interest storyline about a guy putting in extra work in a winter league where he doesn't speak the language, that kind of thing).

I don't think I necessary want to see more storylines driven by player's attributes, because that's always a tough thing to calibrate so that it doesn't feel like overkill ("Really, another guy who won't pitch on Yom Kippur?").

A lot of what you are talking about seems to me like what happens in a good Dynasty Report, so my only suggestion in the meantime is to get writing!

[BradC]

I'm not sure about showing players' personal lives to that degree, but it would be interesting to see how players feel about each other in addition to the other morale info. That would be very complicated, I'm sure, but since team chemistry is something that gets talked about a lot in sports, it would be interesting to have it in the game.

I'll try to bring that up during our company meetings next week.

[ChiefWahoo]

Originally Posted by BradC

I'm not sure about showing players' personal lives to that degree, but it would be interesting to see how players feel about each other in addition to the other morale info. That would be very complicated, I'm sure, but since team chemistry is something that gets talked about a lot in sports, it would be interesting to have it in the game.

I'll try to bring that up during our company meetings next week.

That's amazing, Brad. Thanks! You guys are terrific at scouring the forums looking for ways to make the game better. All the best!

[Questdog]

We used to be able to get married and have kids in OOTP!

[Ts-Rock]

Originally Posted by ChiefWahoo

I don't know, maybe it's just the passionate The Sims series fan inside of me, but I think that our players in OOTP could use even more intricate detail in their personalities and off-field makeups. I love how in Football Manager, players have to learn to speak foreign tongues, that would be an interesting implementation, as would be the ability to talk to or communicate with our players and coaches. Also, what if the game took storylines to a how new level... player information could show if the player is married, in a relationship, what religion they follow, political beliefs, etc... not as a way to make anyone uncomfortable, but as a way to further make the universe feel like its living and breathing. Maybe the next Sandy Koufax refuses to pitch in the World Series because it falls on Yom Kippur? Maybe a superstar shocks the world and becomes the Michael Sam of baseball? We could even keep tabs on a player's criminal history or other colorful off-field incidents... having players linked to crime organizations or other corruptions like Shoeless Joe. I don't know, maybe these things are too easily offensive, but I would love to see this sorta stuff as an optional thing. Thoughts?

seeing as MLB* is making Marcus remove failed drug test out of the story lines I doubt MLB would allow some of those story lines too.


*I thought I read that in last update thread

[gbwitheyes]

I do like the chemistry angle. Bringing in that older player to aid in the professionalism of the younger players. The ripples caused by paying one player far better than the others.

Story lines can say these things. They can provide the feeling of a team. Impacting the team and how they play is a whole different thing.

There is so much here that could be done. I would love to see some of this.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Questdog

We used to be able to get married and have kids in OOTP!

LOL, my wife didn't think much of that feature as my then 14 year old reported the birth of his 4th child.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by dmacgreg37

I know the language thing is there in FM, but I've never actually noticed it making any discernible difference to the game. I don't even look at the language line to be honest in FM.

It does

I have seen players unable to adjust to a new country because they cannot learn the language and ask to be transfer listed.
And if your players have trouble communicating it can be a negative hit to on the field team work. If they cannot speak your managers language, then sometimes they do not follow on the field instructions if you change them mid match.
Finally, I have players in their general happiness field, state that they are happy to have Player X to be able to talk to. Player X speaks one of their languages.

And on the manager side of things. Team meetings and team talks are less effective until you gain some mastery of the native language of whatever nation the league your managing in it.

[goalieump413]

Great topic. I'm all for adding more realism to this game, even though it's already rich with detail.

A couple of thoughts...

If more personal life comes to the players and coaches in OOTP, it should complement the Personality Ratings, and not accidentally contradict them. For example, a player with low leadership is a follower, and should therefore get along with true leaders pretty well, as both are needed for better team chemistry. Too many leaders can cause chaos in the clubhouse, and should be reflected in player performance. Likewise, too many followers under-develop and perform poorly, getting lost in the game.

Personal life should influence ratings changes. Players with uncertain personal lives are more likely to perform randomly, prone to be streaky. Sometimes they have hot streaks because they need baseball as their stabilizing resource too. Their upbringing can have strange effects too. Broken homes often produce more effective athletes because, as kids, they learn to live with chaos and seek the mentoring of coaches to help them through their tough personal lives. Further, players that are married, have kids, and have extended family to take care of are often the universal glue that every organization needs to help keep wild athletes in check.

Coaches should be included in any revamped personal story system as well. It'd be cool to see an organization attempt to sign a lower level coach who says no because he'd have to move his family across country in the middle of his daughter's HS basketball season.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by BradC

I'm not sure about showing players' personal lives to that degree, but it would be interesting to see how players feel about each other in addition to the other morale info. That would be very complicated, I'm sure, but since team chemistry is something that gets talked about a lot in sports, it would be interesting to have it in the game.

I'll try to bring that up during our company meetings next week.

Originally Posted by gbwitheyes

I do like the chemistry angle. Bringing in that older player to aid in the professionalism of the younger players. The ripples caused by paying one player far better than the others.

Story lines can say these things. They can provide the feeling of a team. Impacting the team and how they play is a whole different thing.

There is so much here that could be done. I would love to see some of this.

My issue with unquantifiable stuff like chemistry and cohesion or bonding, is that some people seem to want them to be one way only (ie things only improve). To be realistic such concepts must work both ways, apply to AI teams exactly as it does to human teams and not be predictable. If it doesn't then it is an exploit for the human player.

If one accepts that the 2013 Red Sox utilized such "stuff" to win the WS last year then by definition they must have poor chemistry/cohesion this year. It can't be one way. If injuries explain this year then lack of injuries explains last year. If Ellsbury mattered last year, no Ellsbury matters this year. So do all the player stats that are not as good this year vs last and vice-versa. If chemistry matters and the Red Sox don't have bad chemistry in 2014 then last year cannot have occurred due to a significant dose of good chemistry. I see no evidence that the Red Sox are a bad chemistry team this year. Their issues are quite obvious and quantifiable.

I suspect that some posters who like the idea initially might find it less desirable when their carefully constructed roster implodes in conflict or sinks from low motivation, an injury (more than just the loss of production) or a change in player personality. I'm not sure that significant player personality changes or inter player conflict modules exist in the game. These would have to be enabled.

Significant literature exists suggesting that "chemistry" stories are human constructs told via post facto anecdotes that the media loves to spin into inspirational stories. This happens in every sport now. Somehow a championship can't be won on talent; it has to be a happy family thing or a redemption story in order to justify winning. That flies opposite to most historical accounts of baseball where we are told that the Yankees clubhouse was not a friendly home for new players but more like a business office where winning was demanded and the World Series share counted on by all the regular players because the Yankees were notoriously cheap. Any new talent had to show quickly that they were going to contribute to winning more than being a good guy. On the contrary Tom Yawkey paid the Red Sox better and gave them more perks so they were not hungry enough. Read Summer of '49 if you don't believe this.

Would anyone even have heard about the Red Sox chemistry if they had bowed out to the Rays in the LDS last year? Very doubtful IMO.

Some links
The Red Sox Chemistry Experiment - Fire Brand of the American League
ESPN The Magazine study on MLB clubhouses says Boston Red Sox have 'below-average' team chemistry that will cost them in wins | masslive.com

[gbwitheyes]

I almost forgot. There needs to be a way where players can lure the baseball Annie's into the dugout for woohoo.

If you need to blur out exposed privates or the names of players on their jerseys to make the MLB happy that's okay.

Maybe you could add a hidden selection to turn these items back on for those of us that live vicariously through our players.

[gbwitheyes]

Originally Posted by RchW

My issue with unquantifiable stuff like chemistry and cohesion or bonding, is that some people seem to want them to be one way only (ie things only improve). To be realistic such concepts must work both ways, apply to AI teams exactly as it does to human teams and not be predictable. If it doesn't then it is an exploit for the human player.

I have no misconception that all moves will be positive. Or that moves you make will have any impact at all.

For me, this is more a fictional league feature. A feature that should have its own configurations including AI setting and the ability to be disabled.

[BusterKing]

OOTP16 "The Sims".

No thanks.

[goalieump413]

Originally Posted by BusterKing

OOTP16 "The Sims".

No thanks.

What if you could just turn off the feature?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by goalieump413

What if you could just turn off the feature?

The argument is one of resource allocation. I see the unquantifiable stuff as a low priority vs game play issues that still exist. Leaving me with having to turn off stuff that I don't even think should be in the game is like heads you win tails I lose. Not buying it.

[ChiefWahoo]

Originally Posted by RchW

The argument is one of resource allocation. I see the unquantifiable stuff as a low priority vs game play issues that still exist. Leaving me with having to turn off stuff that I don't even think should be in the game is like heads you win tails I lose. Not buying it.

Well to each their own, but for some, if not many of us fictional players, this added depth and immersion is mouth-watering. OOTP intrinsically is a game of options and personal preference, so why not simply build on that foundation and further drive player imagination??

[endgame]

Originally Posted by ChiefWahoo

Well to each their own, but for some, if not many of us fictional players, this added depth and immersion is mouth-watering. OOTP intrinsically is a game of options and personal preference, so why not simply build on that foundation and further drive player imagination??

You could, but the rub is that anything added must inevitably have realistic game impact. Some are easy, but most are not easily quantified.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Not to mention that professional baseball players are just people, and (no offense to the good people here) most people's lives just aren't that interesting. Especially people who work 60-70 hours per week (especially during the season).