Tell me more about the 3D collada format

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by justafan

Oh boy, here goes another thread in the crapper.

That last smiley looks incrediably painful.

[justafan]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

That last smiley looks incrediably painful.

So is this forum.

[The Wolf]

Go ahead and laugh. And then watch over time as the focus of the game and the overwhelming number of feature requests slowly slips down the slope over to graphics.

[Doc_Brown]

Maybe that day will come The Wolf, hopefully not. But only one person knows that answer.

[ry1220]

I've been making 3d models of ballparks with Google SketchUp for 4 years now. (Or I would, if I had been around at all the past 2 years.)

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...61-post22.html

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by ry1220

I've been making 3d models of ballparks with Google SketchUp for 4 years now. (Or I would, if I had been around at all the past 2 years.)

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...61-post22.html

Well now, let's hope you're around a lot in the next two years! Those look really nice

[endgame]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Go ahead and laugh. And then watch over time as the focus of the game and the overwhelming number of feature requests slowly slips down the slope over to graphics.

There are a few points to keep in mind as the game evolves, specifically in this area: any focus that relates to the graphics arena will be primarily addressed by graphics personnel, whether those are feature elements solicited by the public or generated by OOTP; graphics appeal to 'some' number of the existing user base, viewed as enhancements; as an optional feature, it doesn't lose sales to the faction to which it does not appeal; its addition, in the early stages or in the years' evolution, is likely to inspire an increase in sales.

In theory, I understand your concern. In its likely application, however, I'm inclined (no slope pun intended) to believe the separation of efforts and the distribution of appeal will grow the game and its component parts across the board- even areas we have yet to envision -and run counter to any course toward entropy.

[Honorable_Pawn]

I think Steam is intrusive, monopolistic, and grrrrr....darn it...it's...it's...it's not like Lincoln Logs!!!

[Honorable_Pawn]

All fooling around aside...

I like Steam and enjoy all of its advantages. My only real concern with Steam is when the chickens come home to roost. At some point by squeezing developers the way they do they are indirectly creating a competitive edge for developers with existing infastructure.

The name of the game becomes scales of economy. Sure there is more exposure but ever tightening margins will only tighten more and more as Steam gains market share.

Luckily, there is greenlight but as Steam grows it will create ever increasing barriers to entry. Ulimately, I think innovation will be lost as devlopers continue to merge exponentially. Here's the thing...it's really no different than anything else in capitalism. In the end, everything gets Walmartized.

[Honorable_Pawn]

ugh...wrong thread.

[conception]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Go ahead and laugh. And then watch over time as the focus of the game and the overwhelming number of feature requests slowly slips down the slope over to graphics.

I understand your point, but the way I feel right now is that there are diminishing returns in the sim features that at this point can be added to OOTP. It's not that it is perfect, but when I first started playing OOTP 7 years ago there were numerous things that were glaring in their absence despite the solid structure. Numerous versions since then have gradually added in what really seemed to be missing. The only thing right now I would really love to see that's not in the game are realistically functioning winter or fall leagues, where teams can send top prospects essentially on loan. I know there are many people out there who still have a list of things they think are essential, but for me most of those things being discussed are not things that would impact my use of the game in the slightest.

A 3d engine, at least once its had time to mature and work out the kinks in game, is going to vastly improve the game. Not only will it increase my enjoyment far more than any other conceivable feature that could be added, as long as nothing is broken on the already finely tunned system in place on the sim side, I'd be satisfied if the next ten versions were dedicated to improving visuals. I could continue enjoying what's in place with OOTP14 for years to come. (I don't expect expressing that opinion to make me immensely popular amongst some die hards here)

[The Wolf]

Believe it or not, I actually hope that I'm wrong and Endgame is right. But, since that runs counter to everything I've ever seen, I remain concerned. But there is always hope.

And, who knows? Maybe the horse will learn to sing.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by conception

as long as nothing is broken on the already finely tunned system in place on the sim side, I'd be satisfied if the next ten versions were dedicated to improving visuals. I could continue enjoying what's in place with OOTP14 for years to come. (I don't expect expressing that opinion to make me immensely popular amongst some die hards here)

The problem with that is that the game still does not properly simulate the MLB or reflect its rules, that features like the newspaper and storylines desperately need work, and that there are a ton of other features that need to be added.

What I fear is that eye candy and shiny objects will enthrall people to the point where the game stops getting better and only gets prettier, just like you admitted that you want it to. Which would be the end of it.

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

The problem with that is that the game still does not properly simulate the MLB or reflect its rules, that features like the newspaper and storylines desperately need work, and that there are a ton of other features that need to be added.

What I fear is that eye candy and shiny objects will enthrall people to the point where the game stops getting better and only gets prettier, just like you admitted that you want it to. Which would be the end of it.

It certainly happened with all AAA games today. The number of games that look pretty but get boring after an hour or two get major ratings from IGN and Gamespot...the day is coming for text sims (although we already saw that with EA and their shortly lived venture into text sims)

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

The problem with that is that the game still does not properly simulate the MLB or reflect its rules, that features like the newspaper and storylines desperately need work, and that there are a ton of other features that need to be added.

What I fear is that eye candy and shiny objects will enthrall people to the point where the game stops getting better and only gets prettier, just like you admitted that you want it to. Which would be the end of it.

These are valid points, but don't you think after all of these years, when Markus had stated that he has always wanted a 3d engine and now he finally seems to have some capital to start working towards his vision. Don't you think he has earned the right to pursue it? The guy is working on the 15th version of his great game and only now has he decided it is time to start adding in some graphical features in-game. Dont you think he deserves a little credit and support for how he has managed to keep it going all these years with a niche product?

I for one do. And the fact that he has pushed the graphics piece to a completely different resource while he still works on everything he would have worked on anyway gives nobody the right to spew doom and gloom. The feature list he has provided, minus the graphical features would be impressive on its own. I'm pretty sure this is what he intends.


The graphics people might complain about this or that, down the line and may be unhappy with some things, but you know what? They will be able to provide their input and have it heard just like everyone else. Then the next year of the year after, their wishes may be fulfilled, maybe not, but with such a great immersive game, this is going to make graphics people stick around and OOTP is going to thrive. That is my guy feeling

[NYY #23]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

The problem with that is that the game still does not properly simulate the MLB or reflect its rules, that features like the newspaper and storylines desperately need work, and that there are a ton of other features that need to be added.

What I fear is that eye candy and shiny objects will enthrall people to the point where the game stops getting better and only gets prettier, just like you admitted that you want it to. Which would be the end of it.

I'm just curious what "back of the box" features you feel are missing. I know there is a ton of them, but what specifically? What MLB rules are not properly simulated which would drive new sales if they were implemented?

Do you play with logos, uniforms, or facegen? I think they all could be considered eye candy and shiny objects, but I would be willing to bet the majority of users thing they make the game better.

Sure newspapers need work, but wait - "Improved news stories and in-game play-by-play".

I'm going to reserve judgement on the 3D eye candy until I see how it's implemented. I've read over and over it's optional, it's a graphics developer, and it's still all doom and gloom. I've been around long enough to have some trust that Markus knows what he's doing.

But carry on with your doomsday predictions.

[Stravers]

Hey everyone I have never played this game and i'm not sure any of you will read this but i want the producers to know and i think this goes for every fan interested in this game. PLEASE DON'T RUSH, if I'm going to be getting this game, I want to be investing in something thats worth it, so please make it worth it. For example Football manager 2014 tried to come out with the game too early and it was super buggy. So please try to make this game perfect before you put it on the market.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

What MLB rules are not properly simulated which would drive new sales if they were implemented?

From my perspective, it isn't really about transaction rules driving sales. Rather, it's about providing the user with different general managing experiences and challenges. And transaction rules—especially if the rules of earlier baseball eras are included—definitely provide different GM environments and thus different experiences and challenges. I personally like the idea of being challenged as a GM in fundamentally different ways.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by silvam14

These are valid points, but don't you think after all of these years, when Markus had stated that he has always wanted a 3d engine and now he finally seems to have some capital to start working towards his vision. Don't you think he has earned the right to pursue it? The guy is working on the 15th version of his great game and only now has he decided it is time to start adding in some graphical features in-game. Dont you think he deserves a little credit and support for how he has managed to keep it going all these years with a niche product?

I for one do. And the fact that he has pushed the graphics piece to a completely different resource while he still works on everything he would have worked on anyway gives nobody the right to spew doom and gloom. The feature list he has provided, minus the graphical features would be impressive on its own. I'm pretty sure this is what he intends.


The graphics people might complain about this or that, down the line and may be unhappy with some things, but you know what? They will be able to provide their input and have it heard just like everyone else. Then the next year of the year after, their wishes may be fulfilled, maybe not, but with such a great immersive game, this is going to make graphics people stick around and OOTP is going to thrive. That is my guy feeling

Sil, Markus can do whatever he wants, of course and no question.

But turning a text-based game into a 3D game is an extremely complicated proposition - my sister is a professional computer graphics designer, I have heard more about 3D over the years than I ever wanted to - and it makes me uneasy about what may happen and how the overall focus of the game could go awry. Graphics could easily become more important to the majority of users than than gameplay, and could drive the game from then on.

Your gut tells you everything is going to be okay. That's great. Mine tells me that there's a lot - a Hell of a lot - of potential for bad things to happen as OOTP becomes a graphics-oriented game.

I hope yours is right.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by NYY #23

But carry on with your doomsday predictions.

Someone expressing legitimate concerns about what they think may be a really bad idea is a "doomsday prediction"? Not. But do carry on with your hyperbole and exaggerations.