Promotion/Relegation

[dward1]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Marcus wrote the financial code, and he said a complete rewrite would be required. I believe him.

can you post the thread where he talked about it? I can't find it anywhere

[The Wolf]

Heck, no. It was like two years ago.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Yes, getting the entire financial system correct would be a huge task and almost certainly not worth it from a business perspective for OOTP.

I disagree with that too. I'd say the financial system is a vital core matter of the game, seeing as being a GM means interacting with it in many ways, e.g. negotiating with players over contracts, managing the payroll, etc.

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Taking care of the single biggest issue to where people could manually set it up more easily would not ...

Perhaps. But there are still going to be issues.

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

I'm just saying an entire rewrite shouldn't be required.

Perhaps not. But there would still be some lingering issues.

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

League level options could be added (2nd tier, 3rd tier, etc.) that have equivalent "league level" effects to the current minor league levels but are still allowed to have financials. That could work in concert with a team's reputation being affected by the league level if implemented like that.

That's not that simple. You have to factor in, for example, how does average attendance vary between tiers? What about local and national media revenue, how is that handled? What would be the differences in that between tiers? What happens to that when a team moves up or drops down a tier? And so forth.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you shouldn't argue for something you think it worthwhile. I'm just trying to point out that there is often a lot more involved in a feature than might first meet the eye.

[The Wolf]

It would require a lot of work and only a small minority of users are interested in it.

I'd really like to see stats only get some love too, but we are in the exact same boat that the P/R guys are.

[Poweshow]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Marcus wrote the financial code, and he said a complete rewrite would be required. I believe him.

You keep saying this but at least from this thread it doesn't appear as if Marcus completely understands (not a bad thing) what exactly would make this work and the baby steps that we, the P/R advocates, would be happy with to make this type of league more functional that would absolutely not require a financial rewrite.

If we can yearly get some small tweaks added to the game that make P/R leagues easier to set up with a potential financial rewrite in a few years I think we'd all be quite pleased much the same I'd be quite pleased with stats only focus on the same scale (small adjustments yearly) as it would provide me with NEW ways to play this game.

[The Wolf]

Talk to him directly. See what he says.

[Poweshow]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Talk to him directly. See what he says.

Have you read anything that anybody in this thread has said?
Did you read anything that I just wrote?
Have you read the first page of this thread?

It appears that all of this has been over your head thus far so I'm going to go WAY out on a limb and assume that even if you did read the thread -particularly page 1- you wouldn't be capable of comprehending that Marcus himself wasn't aware of the small changes that could greatly benefit P/R advocates in creating their leagues that would not have anything to do with a financial recode.

I'm sure all of this is going to go over your head so if you need me to draw you pictures to better help understand this post I might be willing.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I'd really like to see stats only get some love too, but we are in the exact same boat that the P/R guys are.

What kind of love would you like to see for stats only?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

What kind of love would you like to see for stats only?

A stats-only mode where:

1. The AI never, ever looks at ratings when making a decision.

2. No ratings except current speed are ever visible, even in the editor.

3. HS/college performance are as good an indicator of future MILB/MLB performance as it is in real life.

4. Displays are adjusted so that even though ratings are no longer visible, it looks like nothing has been left off of any display.

And a few more points.

[The Wolf]

And, to repeat the point, MARKUS said it would take a complete financial rewrite, not me. And, since he wrote the code, I believe the man.

[The Wolf]

And, since I was accused of not reading the first page, perhaps I'd better post a link to my much-thanked suggestion in it:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3635905

[Huckleberry]

I fail to see how my second suggestion would be "a lot" of work.

Another option would be adding a factor to the calculation for a team's reputation that is based on the average payroll in the league compared to the average payroll in all major leagues in the game universe. In a single major league situation this would therefore have no impact as all teams would have the same factor (their factors would be 1). But in a game setup with multiple major leagues this would help ensure that teams in the lower level leagues have a lower reputation than the teams in the top levels regardless of winning percentage, standings finish, and other criteria that are currently used. Depending on how it's done this could accomplish the goal without having to add the additional league level options mentioned above. It would still require manual setup of each league's financials by the user, but I have no issue with doing that and I think that's the same for most of us interested in such a setup.

The game currently calculates a team's reputation according to the OOTP Developments online manual. Adding the above factor would be pretty minimal work, requiring only modifying the formula used to calculate the team's reputation.

XYZ = current formula to calculate a team's reputation
APTL = average payroll in the team's league
OAP = overall average payroll of all "Major League" level teams in the game database
SF = scaling factor, might be necessary but hard to tell

New team reputation = (XYZ) * (APTL / OAP) * SF

So let's say there are two teams in different Major Leagues in the game. They have the exact same record, same standings finish, same playoff results every year for the last 50 years. They are identical teams with respect to their own leagues. So theoretically their team reputations are identical. Let's say their current team reputations are 50 on a 1-100 scale.

However, Team A plays in the top league in the world and the average payroll of the teams in that league is $100M. Team B plays in a low level league where the average payroll is only $25M. For simplicity we will assume that they are both 30-team leagues. So with a SF of 1, Team A now has a team rep of 80 while Team B now has a team rep of 20.

If Team A had started with a team reputation of 20 (terrible team in the best league) while team B had a team reputation of 80 (great team in the worst league) now they both have a team reputation of 32 after the adjustment. So in terms of team reputations, those two teams would be on even footing with a scaling factor of one. Meaning that in this case the contract they're able to offer is once again a deciding factor.

The coding work for this tweak seems fairly minimal. There would still have to be thought put into it, of course, because the scaling factor may be critical depending on the rest of the player contract decision code. But that code doesn't have to be necessarily be revised, you just play with the above scaling factor depending on how important team reputation is to players in the existing player contract decision algorithm and also the variance in team reputation created by the current formula (XYZ in my example).

And the best part is that a standard single major league setup is completely unaffected by this change.