Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Out of the Park Baseball 20 > OOTP 20 - New to the Game?

OOTP 20 - New to the Game? If you have basic questions about the the latest version of our game, please come here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-10-2020, 10:17 AM   #1
leandrocamargo
Minors (Rookie Ball)
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Curitiba - Brazil
Posts: 21
What to do when a starter had a bad first inning

Hey there,

I want to know the general opinion about it:
If a starter pitch takes 4 or more runs in first inning should I call a reliever?
Or can I risk try him a little more? Is there any parameter to make such decision?

I'm pretty new to baseball strategy, and it happend in my save game and I don't know if I took the right decision.
leandrocamargo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 10:35 AM   #2
Brad K
Hall Of Famer
 
Brad K's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Petersburg Florida USA
Posts: 5,315
Leave him in.
Brad K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 11:59 AM   #3
ezpkns34
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 693
As with everything, it depends

How many relievers do you have? How many are able to last 2+ innings? Have a day off soon? Is it a vital game?

Generally better to leave the starter in if you can deal with the frustration
ezpkns34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 02:56 PM   #4
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Agree with "it depends". How the runs came about will instruct you. Did the fielders muck it up? Did he walk 2-3 batters and allow 3 4 5 hits in between.
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2020, 08:57 PM   #5
Brad K
Hall Of Famer
 
Brad K's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Petersburg Florida USA
Posts: 5,315
My understanding is pitchers aren't programmed to have "bad days". A few innings bad performance is random. So leave him in until he can be hit for. If my understanding isn't correct I'd like to know.
Brad K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 03:18 PM   #6
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,735
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
My understanding is pitchers aren't programmed to have "bad days". A few innings bad performance is random. So leave him in until he can be hit for. If my understanding isn't correct I'd like to know.
This for sure. Just had a game yesterday where my best starter had a horrible first inning, giving up 5 runs, with the last three coming by way of a three run home run. I let him stay in and he went on to throw five shutout innings after that and left the game after the sixth inning with a 6-5 lead. He went on to be awarded with the win.
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2020, 04:36 PM   #7
cavebutter
All Star Starter
 
cavebutter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,158
Another vote for "it depends." How important is this particular game? How well rested is your pen? Do you have a long reliever or spot starter in there? When is your next off day?

I often suck it up and leave him in until the 4th if I can bear it.
__________________
MySQL, MyStruggle - A self-indulgent blog about my attempts to roll my own MySQL Database with OOTP

Logo Gallery
cavebutter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2020, 08:11 AM   #8
Reed
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
My understanding is pitchers aren't programmed to have "bad days". A few innings bad performance is random. So leave him in until he can be hit for. If my understanding isn't correct I'd like to know.
This.
If he is a bad pitcher and you have enough relievers, pull him. If he is the ace of your staff, leave him in, unless there is an OOTP reason he pitched poorly such as being exhausted, etc..
Reed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2020, 09:43 AM   #9
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
My understanding is pitchers aren't programmed to have "bad days". A few innings bad performance is random. So leave him in until he can be hit for. If my understanding isn't correct I'd like to know.
They aren't programmed to have bad days but the results can indicate a bad day or as Dyzalot posted, a bad inning followed by a recovery of form.
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2020, 04:43 PM   #10
Brad K
Hall Of Famer
 
Brad K's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Petersburg Florida USA
Posts: 5,315
If they aren't programmed to have a bad day then a bad first inning has no effect on their performance in subsequent innings.
Brad K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2020, 04:47 PM   #11
Pine Tar
Minors (Double A)
 
Pine Tar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 106
I think I have had a few pitchers who have had a bad season. I don't think they were programmed for that either.

Pine Tar
__________________
Pine Tar

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





Sometimes I wonder, whatever happened to all the people I gave directions to ..
Never take a sleeping pill and laxative at the same time.
Pine Tar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2020, 02:27 AM   #12
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
If they aren't programmed to have a bad day then a bad first inning has no effect on their performance in subsequent innings.
On the contrary there is nothing to be learned from one bad inning or two or three. Make the pitching change or not.That's the managers job.
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2020, 11:43 AM   #13
Gruber_Tagged_Him
Minors (Triple A)
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 209
Seems to me it depends upon whether you are playing to win a video game, or whether you are using OOTP to simulate being a real-life manager. As others have pointed out, as far as we know pitchers don't start the day with a "this is going to be a bad start" flag raised, so having a bad inning does not predict what the future innings will look like. So if you are playing to win at a video game, then leave him in.

However if you are trying to immerse yourself as a real-life manager, then I'd think you should be ready to pull him out much earlier, say if he gives up a couple more base runners in the next inning or two. Unless bullpen is in bad shape, most managers IRL won't leave a starter out there to get pounded.
Gruber_Tagged_Him is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2020, 02:20 PM   #14
CBeisbol
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Ban land in 3...2...
Posts: 2,943
I wish it was easier to make different saves in this game.

Then it would be easy to test

When a starter has a bad first inning, save. Then simulate the rest of the game and see how those results compare to the pitcher's overall results

My guess would be that there would be no meaningful difference (other than maybe because of getting fatigued sooner because of a long first inning). But, I don't know, obviously

One could also do it the real life way

Look at all the starts where a pitcher has a bad first inning and compare their results in the rest of the game to their overall results.

That's be a lot of work. Especially to do it right
CBeisbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2020, 08:56 PM   #15
Brad K
Hall Of Famer
 
Brad K's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Petersburg Florida USA
Posts: 5,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruber_Tagged_Him View Post
Seems to me it depends upon whether you are playing to win a video game, or whether you are using OOTP to simulate being a real-life manager. As others have pointed out, as far as we know pitchers don't start the day with a "this is going to be a bad start" flag raised, so having a bad inning does not predict what the future innings will look like. So if you are playing to win at a video game, then leave him in.

However if you are trying to immerse yourself as a real-life manager, then I'd think you should be ready to pull him out much earlier, say if he gives up a couple more base runners in the next inning or two. Unless bullpen is in bad shape, most managers IRL won't leave a starter out there to get pounded.

How can a person immerse themselves as a real life manager when the game is not set up to respond to real life like decisions?
Brad K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 11:35 AM   #16
ignats75
Minors (Triple A)
 
ignats75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Lakewood, OH
Posts: 268
Context has alot to do with the situation.

Are you in the middle of the season or is this a playoff?

What kind of offense does YOUR team have? Will your team have a legitimate chance to score 4 or more runs or are you already behind the 8-ball?

How fatigued is your pitcher already? How fatigued is your bullpen? What is the record of the starting pitcher? Is he your ace?

Trust me, I've attended real life games where I've seen last years Cy Young winner get shelled in the first two innings and get pulled. Other times, I've seen Tito leave a starter in and he "rights the ship" and does fine going forward..

At the very least, if you use the bullpen option, I would at least get a long reliever warming up. If your starter does ok, going forward you can always sit the long man back down.
ignats75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 09:17 PM   #17
Brad K
Hall Of Famer
 
Brad K's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Petersburg Florida USA
Posts: 5,315
Its been established OOTP doesn't have a "bad day" feature. So any removal of a rested starting pitcher for a bad inning has no basis.

Well, people say, this is what they do in real life baseball. Maybe they shouldn't. After all, an inning is a small sample size. Who is to say it isn't just bad luck? Or maybe the team is playing on the road against the Astros.
Brad K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 11:39 AM   #18
Sweed
Hall Of Famer
 
Sweed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 6,033
Infractions: 0/1 (1)
I agree there is not a "bad day" flag in the game but I do think there is a "snowball" effect. Note what the visit mound option in the manual says about calming the pitcher.

Quote:
Visit Mound The manager visits the pitcher on the mound. This option is usually used to try to calm down the pitcher if he has gotten in trouble. This option also helps use up some time if you are warming up a relief pitcher, and gives the manager a better idea of how tired his pitcher is
One can argue everything is random and ratings prevail. Those games where the opponent is scoring in each of the first three innings, they're hitting everything, and you just know it's going to be bad and ends up being a 17-2 drubbing. That 8 run inning you allow when you went into the inning up 5-3 and go out down 11-5. It's all random, leave the guy in his ratings will prevail...

But the mound visit option says it can be used to calm down a P in trouble. If that is true then being in trouble must have some influence on outcome. Maybe the P gets a "normal" K and gets his mind right without a visit, maybe after a visit he still gets shelled, maybe after a visit he gets a GB DP and gets out of the inning etc. etc. etc. I've had all of these outcomes and more and if, after a visit, the guy continues to get shelled he is coming out, I don't care what his ratings are ( this too can be dependent on context).

To the OP question, if it is the first inning then I'm doing everything in my power to try to get him through (of course context dependent as others have mentioned). A first inning change can destroy a bullpen for the next few days and I will try to avoid this if I can.

Last edited by Sweed; 02-20-2020 at 11:41 AM. Reason: spelling
Sweed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 09:36 PM   #19
Brad K
Hall Of Famer
 
Brad K's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Petersburg Florida USA
Posts: 5,315
Some stuff is just for flavor and isn't nutritional Like the info on who's hot and who's not. And the idea a not programmed for a bad day pitcher gets upset when hammered.
Brad K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2020, 09:39 PM   #20
Brad K
Hall Of Famer
 
Brad K's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Petersburg Florida USA
Posts: 5,315
Maybe real life pitchers are pulled needlessly. So a guy is rested, feels good, has good velocity, good control, but is getting hammered, its still a super small sample. Why take him out even if the outfielders are tired?
Brad K is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:29 AM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments