Minor League System Rankings

tailgtr24 · 04-02-2018, 12:30 PM

Can one of the developers explain why the games Minor League System rankings are so much different than in real life?

For example, the St. Louis Cardinals have the 24th rated farm system in baseball according to OOTP 19. However, in real life most systems have them in the top 5-10 in all of baseball. Why no love for their prospects? Jordan Hicks is considered one of the top pitching prospects in baseball but his ratings are considerably low.

Cod · 04-02-2018, 10:39 PM

In the OOTP world, minor league system rankings are based on the number of players you have in the top 100 prospects list. The specific rank of each player is used for a tiebreaker. For example, team 1 has two prospects rated 2 and 5 overall while team 2 has two prospects rated 3 and 6 overall. Team 1 will have a better overall minor league system ranking.

Another problem is that the top 100 prospects report is very random after the first season. There is even more randomness when playing fictional leagues.

tailgtr24 · 04-14-2018, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cod

In the OOTP world, minor league system rankings are based on the number of players you have in the top 100 prospects list. The specific rank of each player is used for a tiebreaker. For example, team 1 has two prospects rated 2 and 5 overall while team 2 has two prospects rated 3 and 6 overall. Team 1 will have a better overall minor league system ranking.

Another problem is that the top 100 prospects report is very random after the first season. There is even more randomness when playing fictional leagues.

That's the problem though, the Cardinals have 4 players on the top 100 prospects list but this game has them rated terribly low.

Jordan Hicks for example throws 100 mph but in the game is rated as a not ready MLB reliever with a rather low ceiling. Carson Kelly is considered to be one of if not the best catching prospect in the minors. Alex Reyes is one of the top pitching prospects in baseball.

I really could go on and on about this, but I'd like an explanation from a developer.

Cod · 04-14-2018, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailgtr24

That's the problem though, the Cardinals have 4 players on the top 100 prospects list but this game has them rated terribly low.

Jordan Hicks for example throws 100 mph but in the game is rated as a not ready MLB reliever with a rather low ceiling. Carson Kelly is considered to be one of if not the best catching prospect in the minors. Alex Reyes is one of the top pitching prospects in baseball.

Maybe the in-game Top 100 list is the problem? I say this because the players you mentioned barely show up on Fangraphs' Top 100 list. Alex Reyes is #16 overall (#3 for pitchers) and Carson Kelly is #85 overall (#3 for catchers). Jordan Hicks doesn't even show up on any list I can find, probably because he's so raw.

Also, I've built a minor league system with numerous players with above average potential that turned into great ML level players; however, I never broke the Top 15 minor league systems.

I'm not trying to make excuses or "stand in" for the developers, but trying to bring a different perspective.

NoOne · 04-14-2018, 09:25 PM

do you have useable and good prospects? who cares what the ranking says.

could just be scouting accuracy related... could be overrated or underrated players.

the top 200 or whatver ootp uses is probaly 40-50% wrong. they younger your 'better' players are, the more likely it will be incredibly inaccurate at scouting them.

chalk it up to bad luck with scouting if you have consistend pipeline of mlb quality players.

msupoke · 04-15-2018, 12:42 AM

Maybe the Cardinals should try hacking the Astros' system.

tailgtr24 · 04-15-2018, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

do you have useable and good prospects? who cares what the ranking says.

could just be scouting accuracy related... could be overrated or underrated players.

the top 200 or whatver ootp uses is probaly 40-50% wrong. they younger your 'better' players are, the more likely it will be incredibly inaccurate at scouting them.

chalk it up to bad luck with scouting if you have consistend pipeline of mlb quality players.

I'm talking about the ratings of players right out of the box when you start a game.

Hicks potential is extremely low, even though he's considered one of the best pitchers in the system.

I'd like to know what the developers see so differently than a majority of actual MLB scouts and writers, because this is two years in a row where they've rated Cardinals prospects much lower than what the industry has them rated at.

tailgtr24 · 04-15-2018, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cod

Maybe the in-game Top 100 list is the problem? I say this because the players you mentioned barely show up on Fangraphs' Top 100 list. Alex Reyes is #16 overall (#3 for pitchers) and Carson Kelly is #85 overall (#3 for catchers). Jordan Hicks doesn't even show up on any list I can find, probably because he's so raw.

Also, I've built a minor league system with numerous players with above average potential that turned into great ML level players; however, I never broke the Top 15 minor league systems.

I'm not trying to make excuses or "stand in" for the developers, but trying to bring a different perspective.

Reyes, Flaherty, Kelly, and O'Neil are the 4 that are generally on every list. When you expand to 200, that list increases.

CBLCardinals · 04-15-2018, 03:59 PM

If you read the in game screen for prospect rankings, if they have more than 75 days of big league service, they are not eligible to be ranked in the team's top 30, nor in the OOTP top prospects list. That accounts for both Kelly and Reyes, who have exceeded that mark.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailgtr24

Reyes, Flaherty, Kelly, and O'Neil are the 4 that are generally on every list. When you expand to 200, that list increases.

tailgtr24 · 04-15-2018, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBLCardinals

If you read the in game screen for prospect rankings, if they have more than 75 days of big league service, they are not eligible to be ranked in the team's top 30, nor in the OOTP top prospects list. That accounts for both Kelly and Reyes, who have exceeded that mark.

Thanks, I can read.

Again, what do the developers know that the MLB experts don't and why are they using a different criteria?

CBLCardinals · 04-15-2018, 04:29 PM

Two of the four you've listed in this thread are NOT eligible to be ranked in the Cardinals Top 30 NOR MLB Top Prospects in OOTP...not sure why this is difficult to understand?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailgtr24

Thanks, I can read.

Again, what do the developers know that the MLB experts don't and why are they using a different criteria?

Cod · 04-15-2018, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBLCardinals

Two of the four you've listed in this thread are NOT eligible to be ranked in the Cardinals Top 30 NOR MLB Top Prospects in OOTP...not sure why this is difficult to understand?

No sense in trying to talk to people who have their team goggles on...

UltimateAverageGuy · 04-15-2018, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailgtr24

That's the problem though, the Cardinals have 4 players on the top 100 prospects list but this game has them rated terribly low.

Jordan Hicks for example throws 100 mph but in the game is rated as a not ready MLB reliever with a rather low ceiling. Carson Kelly is considered to be one of if not the best catching prospect in the minors. Alex Reyes is one of the top pitching prospects in baseball.

I really could go on and on about this, but I'd like an explanation from a developer.

You better get him that explanation Markus, QUICK.

Cod · 04-16-2018, 06:16 PM

Let's take a look at some of the minor league system rankings by different organizations:

MLB Pipeline (MLB official): Not in top 10, exact ranking unknown since MLBP does not provide anything beyond the top 10
ESPN: #12
Bleacher Report: #13

Just so I'm clear, I'm not saying they're the worst farm system, I'm pointing out that their farm system is like their team...a lot of "good" prospects, but little or no "great" prospects. I agree their system ranking in OOTP19 is low, but don't come in here stating their a top 5-10 system and the developers owe you an explanation.

Sources:
https://www.mlb.com/news/top-10-farm...ne/c-267360666
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-start-of-2018
http://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/stor...0-farm-systems (insider required)

WIUPIKE · 04-16-2018, 06:51 PM

Most of the roster set is based off of the ZiPs projections of I am not mistaking. So if they are rated low there, that could be why you are seeing it in your game.

Matt Arnold · 04-16-2018, 08:31 PM

Current ratings are based on Zips. Potentials are set by our team. Lukas can answer more questions about this, but the key point to remember is that it's very easy to look at your teams' prospects and think they're better than they are.

Hicks, since he was mentioned in the top post, is MLB's #7 Cards prospect. Fangraphs has him #11 (although could be as high as 6th since they're all 45s on their list). So definitely seems like he's far from a top starting prospect.

But the best thing to do is if you feel like certain players are underrated in the game, please turn scouting off, and report them, with any other evidence you have (MLB pipeline/BA/Fangraphs/etc... rankings) to the roster issues thread here (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=286238). The roster team continuously is updating player rankings, so maybe certain guys should be ranked higher.

But also as mentioned, if Reyes and Kelly are missing from our lists due to service time calculations (we do use a slightly difference calculation for when guys count as prospects than MLB actually does), well, that's basically the Cards top 2 prospects missing, and so it definitely makes sense that they'd be ranked very low as an organization. Add them back in and they would definitely move up higher.

04-14-2018, 09:25 PM	#5
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	do you have useable and good prospects? who cares what the ranking says. could just be scouting accuracy related... could be overrated or underrated players. the top 200 or whatver ootp uses is probaly 40-50% wrong. they younger your 'better' players are, the more likely it will be incredibly inaccurate at scouting them. chalk it up to bad luck with scouting if you have consistend pipeline of mlb quality players. Last edited by NoOne; 04-14-2018 at 09:27 PM.

04-15-2018, 12:42 AM	#6
msupoke All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 621	Maybe the Cardinals should try hacking the Astros' system. __________________

04-16-2018, 06:16 PM	#14
Cod All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 928	Let's take a look at some of the minor league system rankings by different organizations: MLB Pipeline (MLB official): Not in top 10, exact ranking unknown since MLBP does not provide anything beyond the top 10 ESPN: #12 Bleacher Report: #13 Just so I'm clear, I'm not saying they're the worst farm system, I'm pointing out that their farm system is like their team...a lot of "good" prospects, but little or no "great" prospects. I agree their system ranking in OOTP19 is low, but don't come in here stating their a top 5-10 system and the developers owe you an explanation. Sources: https://www.mlb.com/news/top-10-farm...ne/c-267360666 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-start-of-2018 http://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/stor...0-farm-systems (insider required) Last edited by Cod; 04-16-2018 at 06:18 PM.

04-02-2018, 12:30 PM	#1
tailgtr24 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 38	Minor League System Rankings Can one of the developers explain why the games Minor League System rankings are so much different than in real life? For example, the St. Louis Cardinals have the 24th rated farm system in baseball according to OOTP 19. However, in real life most systems have them in the top 5-10 in all of baseball. Why no love for their prospects? Jordan Hicks is considered one of the top pitching prospects in baseball but his ratings are considerably low.

04-02-2018, 10:39 PM	#2
Cod All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 928	In the OOTP world, minor league system rankings are based on the number of players you have in the top 100 prospects list. The specific rank of each player is used for a tiebreaker. For example, team 1 has two prospects rated 2 and 5 overall while team 2 has two prospects rated 3 and 6 overall. Team 1 will have a better overall minor league system ranking. Another problem is that the top 100 prospects report is very random after the first season. There is even more randomness when playing fictional leagues.

04-16-2018, 06:51 PM	#15
WIUPIKE All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nashville Area Posts: 1,257	Most of the roster set is based off of the ZiPs projections of I am not mistaking. So if they are rated low there, that could be why you are seeing it in your game.

04-16-2018, 08:31 PM	#16
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,142	Current ratings are based on Zips. Potentials are set by our team. Lukas can answer more questions about this, but the key point to remember is that it's very easy to look at your teams' prospects and think they're better than they are. Hicks, since he was mentioned in the top post, is MLB's #7 Cards prospect. Fangraphs has him #11 (although could be as high as 6th since they're all 45s on their list). So definitely seems like he's far from a top starting prospect. But the best thing to do is if you feel like certain players are underrated in the game, please turn scouting off, and report them, with any other evidence you have (MLB pipeline/BA/Fangraphs/etc... rankings) to the roster issues thread here (http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=286238). The roster team continuously is updating player rankings, so maybe certain guys should be ranked higher. But also as mentioned, if Reyes and Kelly are missing from our lists due to service time calculations (we do use a slightly difference calculation for when guys count as prospects than MLB actually does), well, that's basically the Cards top 2 prospects missing, and so it definitely makes sense that they'd be ranked very low as an organization. Add them back in and they would definitely move up higher.