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Old 02-20-2009, 12:02 PM   #1
Markus Heinsohn
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Exclamation Mac/Linux and Paypal

Unfortunately, Paypal in Germany no longer allows to make a purchase through Paypal without creating a Paypal account.

We were not aware of this, so we are now looking for an alternative way to pay via creditcard. This will probably take a couple of weeks, but will definitely be sorted within the preorder period.

So, if you want to preorder for Mac or Linux, but are uncomfortable registering a Paypal account, then please wait until we have sorted the situation.

Thank you for your understanding

Best,
Markus

Last edited by Andreas Raht; 02-20-2009 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:57 AM   #2
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Hey, no problem! Thanks a lot for working to resolve the situation.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:06 PM   #3
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Of course I can't say why others hate PayPal, but I have recently found out one reason -- you can't pay with a credit card if you have a balance in your account (you MUST use the PayPal funds). Personally, I find that to be a really (expletive that rhymes with witty) requirement which is making me reconsider using PayPal at all.

For me, the problem arises when small companies like OOTP (or my landscaper) offer payment by credit card only through PayPal and I'm forced to either pay cash (because that's all PayPal will let me do) or initiate a transfer to clear my PayPal account in order to pay by credit card.

If a company wants to offer payment by credit card, I strongly suggest they find a different processor other than PayPal. That service, IMHO, was far better before eBay got a hold of it.

My 2 cents anyway.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:22 AM   #4
morningstar8
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Unhappy Paypal User Agreement is unacceptable

Markus, thanks very much for considering an alternative! I really want to buy the Linux version this year, and one look at the terrible terms of the Paypal User Agreement (https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/we...utside&popup=1, see sections 1.6, 1.9, 14.3, 14.4, and 14.13 for objectionable terms) made me think that I wouldn't be able to buy the Linux version, so I decided to check out the forums to see if anybody else had a complaint and tripped across this post.

14.13 is truly scary; it gives PayPal permission to spam and call (1.6,1.9) you forever, and your only legal recourse is court in Santa Clara County CA or Omaha NE (14.3,14.4).

And, of course, PayPal can change the agreement at any time, as soon as they want to, and only have to notify you in the event of a "Substantial Change" (undefined), where "notify" means send you an e-mail. I'm amazed that anybody actually agrees to this.
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by morningstar8 View Post
14.13 is truly scary; it gives PayPal permission to spam and call (1.6,1.9) you forever, and your only legal recourse is court in Santa Clara County CA or Omaha NE (14.3,14.4).

And, of course, PayPal can change the agreement at any time, as soon as they want to, and only have to notify you in the event of a "Substantial Change" (undefined), where "notify" means send you an e-mail. I'm amazed that anybody actually agrees to this.
I've been a member for probably five years now and have never had a problem. The only e-mail I have ever received from them was notices of changes in the agreement, which almost never affect me. (Nearly all changes deal with selling things via paypal and buying via eBay, neither of which I do.) I have never received a call from them.

I have no credit card, and PayPal gives me security that my checking account won't be drained by having debit card data stolen. My life is much better with it than without it.

The only thing you might have to worry about is being spoofed, but that can happen if you do any form of banking online, so just take the normal banking precautions, and be sure to report any attempts (I've had three, none in the past two years) to their security center. Easy as pie.
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:48 PM   #6
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I know you are doing your best, but any updates on this yet?
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:46 PM   #7
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Any update on this yet..?
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Old 03-30-2009, 05:42 PM   #8
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I plan on buying just as soon as this is done. I Hope we can find something soon.
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:07 PM   #9
morningstar8
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@whobob: Same here... I recheck this topic every day hoping for a response; I hope we hear something soon!
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:33 AM   #10
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Was wondering if there was any news here? OOTP looks like it'll be out in the next month, month and a half, and I wanted to give my hard earned cash over to this fine company once again.

Thanks.
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:29 AM   #11
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I've used PayPal for years. Hundreds of transaction, both as buyer and seller. Never had even a ghost of a problem. There's nothing to worry about.

But here's how to do it if you are a crazy paranoid. Sign up for a PayPal account. Use PayPal to buy the game through your credit card. Close the PayPal account. Call your credit card company right afterward and get a new number. That ought to make even a crazy paranoid comfortable buying the game.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 04-10-2009, 02:04 AM   #12
morningstar8
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Crazy Paranoid speaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
But here's how to do it if you are a crazy paranoid. Sign up for a PayPal account. Use PayPal to buy the game through your credit card. Close the PayPal account. Call your credit card company right afterward and get a new number. That ought to make even a crazy paranoid comfortable buying the game.
Check my first post in this topic. We "crazy paranoid" people who read the agreement (https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/we...utside&popup=1) know that 14.13 says that many objectionable parts of the agreement "survive the termination of [the] Agreement"!

Call me crazy paranoid if you like; it isn't worth agreeing to this.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:07 AM   #13
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To "The Wolf" - I'm sure many people who elected not to invest with Madoff were called "crazy paranoid" by their friends who did.

However, to me the issue is that seven weeks ago Markus said they were working on an alternative way to purchase and to wait until it was sorted out. To my knowledge, there have been no further updates from Markus or anyone else in "management". I think he owes his current and potential customers some update, even if it's just; we can't find another way and if you want to buy the game you have to set-up a Paypal account.

Also, in my mind the PSID license agreement issue is still unresolved. On March 2, PSIDPAUL said:

"The need to check in on a regular basis has been removed with the new design. The exact details are still pending until the work is actually done and tested. One thing we will make sure is that you can run OOTP 10 on a PC (MAC?) that does not have a direct internet connection* and as part of that these periodic "are you there" style server connections will be disabled."

Yet the License you have to agree to in order to buy the game still contains the following language:

"The Subscriber understands that Software using the Webstore system may require ongoing periodic contact with the Webstore server. The Subscriber accepts that if the Internet connection to the Webstore servers is disrupted for a prolonged period of time the Software could cease to function. In which case PISD will not be held liable the loss of functionality. The Subscriber will make an Internet connection available to any Software using the Webstore if and when required."

I wonder why the agreement hasn't been changed to be consistent with what Paul said in this forum. At this point, these issues are still preventing me fron placing an order.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:42 PM   #14
norva13x
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To "The Wolf" - I'm sure many people who elected not to invest with Madoff were called "crazy paranoid" by their friends who did.

However, to me the issue is that seven weeks ago Markus said they were working on an alternative way to purchase and to wait until it was sorted out. To my knowledge, there have been no further updates from Markus or anyone else in "management". I think he owes his current and potential customers some update, even if it's just; we can't find another way and if you want to buy the game you have to set-up a Paypal account.

Also, in my mind the PSID license agreement issue is still unresolved. On March 2, PSIDPAUL said:

"The need to check in on a regular basis has been removed with the new design. The exact details are still pending until the work is actually done and tested. One thing we will make sure is that you can run OOTP 10 on a PC (MAC?) that does not have a direct internet connection* and as part of that these periodic "are you there" style server connections will be disabled."

Yet the License you have to agree to in order to buy the game still contains the following language:

"The Subscriber understands that Software using the Webstore system may require ongoing periodic contact with the Webstore server. The Subscriber accepts that if the Internet connection to the Webstore servers is disrupted for a prolonged period of time the Software could cease to function. In which case PISD will not be held liable the loss of functionality. The Subscriber will make an Internet connection available to any Software using the Webstore if and when required."

I wonder why the agreement hasn't been changed to be consistent with what Paul said in this forum. At this point, these issues are still preventing me fron placing an order.
+1
Any update, of any kind, would be nice right now. I have checked here everyday for over a month.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:47 PM   #15
The Wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morningstar8 View Post
Call me crazy paranoid if you like
If you're as afraid of PayPal as you purport to be, then, yes, you are a crazy paranoid.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:56 PM   #16
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To "The Wolf" - I'm sure many people who elected not to invest with Madoff were called "crazy paranoid" by their friends who did.
That's ridiculous paranoid hyperbole.

Let me guess, you think Microsoft is evil too, right?

I'll say it again - I've used PayPal for years. Hundreds of transaction, both as buyer and seller. Never had even a ghost of a problem. There's nothing to worry about.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:52 AM   #17
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Hard may be for me to agree with The Wolf, but PayPal works perfectly and without hitches. I've had LOTs of problems with my bank and with credit card companies. Never one problem with PayPal and I use whenever its possible to use it.

(Oh, I do hate Microsoft and would never use Outlook or IE, so I guess I can be paranoid when I am in the mood.)
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:32 AM   #18
morningstar8
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ignoreList.add("The Wolf");

Found in an old thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
Assuming there wasn't more to Wolf's post than myasu quoted (I don't know because I have him blocked), it doesn't look to me like an over reaction as much as it does an unnecessary reaction.... Ignore him and move on. Case closed.
Sounds like good advice; I think I'll take it.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:27 AM   #19
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Thanks for the advice on "The Wolf". I will follow it. Anyone who has posted here over 3600 times in less than 3 years probably has other issues which makes him someone best ignored.

My real point was about the lack of customer responsiveness on the part of OOTP management. How long would it take to come on here and say "We tried to find another way to purchase our product but were unsuccessful" or "We are still working on it"? Not long. I know OOTP is a small business, but with the lack of attention to current/potential customers, they are doomed to remain a small business.
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Old 04-14-2009, 12:05 AM   #20
The Wolf
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Hard may be for me to agree with The Wolf, but PayPal works perfectly and without hitches. I've had LOTs of problems with my bank and with credit card companies. Never one problem with PayPal and I use whenever its possible to use it.
QFT.

I laugh at the idiocy of putting someone on ignore for speaking the plain truth just because it conflicts with their paranoia.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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