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02-23-2018, 01:40 PM | #41 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 538
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Regarding the future of MLB, I think it's going the way of Horse Racing and Boxing:
When I was a teenager in the 1980's, every video gaming platform had a baseball game on it. It was one of the staples. Now, the only gaming platform with a twitch-based baseball game on it that is worth a crap is the Playstation - and almost no-one cares. One problem has been that everything driving baseball has revolved around short-term profits for at least 25 years. The deal that cemented Sony's stranglehold on the gaming baseball market is an example. Great short term income, but hurts baseball's ability to market itself to young people. Steroids were the same thing. Everyone with a brain knew that eventually, baseball was going to be embarrassed by the steroid problem in the 90's. The sports channel I would listen to was talking about this as early as 1995. And of course, records were eventually broken by guys on the stuff, and now everyone has a differing opinion of who holds which records. Baseball is a game of stats, and the stats are now skewed. But for a few years, great profits! Another problem is that we've had a lot of great analysts come along and dissect the game, and determine the optimal way to play. And the optimal way to play baseball, by the current rules, is boring. A batter trying to draw a walk is good strategy, but boring to watch. Bringing in a reliever to pitch to one guy is boring to watch. Conservative (at least by historical standards) baserunning is good strategy but boring to watch. Maybe some rule changes will help the game, but it might be too little, too late. I'm 46. I'm guessing that many of you aren't too young either. And personally I don't know anyone below the age of 40 who cares a lick about baseball. People who like to watch sports prefer football. People who like to get involved and play like basketball. Yes, the NFL is losing popularity but Soccer is willing and able to fill that void. I'm just not seeing it. Maybe baseball has a long-term future in Japan or Central America, but I don't see it holding up here. It's sad. I think the sport has been hastened towards a premature end by greedy, myopic governance. ...and they put Bud Selig, the poster boy for all of the above, in the Hall of Fame. Bloody hell. Last edited by One Post Wonder; 02-23-2018 at 01:42 PM. |
02-23-2018, 05:01 PM | #42 |
Hall Of Famer
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02-23-2018, 06:23 PM | #43 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Oregon, not by design
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well, the Hall of Fame has become a joke anyway, and it's deserving Selig the Clown is there. I'm just waiting for the new Bozo to join him. (Wonder if Judge Landis was considered this worthless in his time?????
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"This is my opening farewell " - Jackson Browne “They make a desolation and call it peace.” ― Agha Shahid Ali "Maybe she just has to sing, for the sake of the song - And who do I think that I am to decide that she's wrong." - Townes Van Zandt "I saw a young man leaning on his wooden crutch - He called out to me, 'Don't ask for so much' And a young woman leaning in her darkened door She cried out to me, 'Why not ask for more?' " - Leonard Cohen "Hello darkness, my old Friend ...." - Paul Simon Before Mays, before DiMaggio, there was Oscar Charleston. "All the lies about Babe Ruth are true." - Waite Hoyt Avatar is the late great Townes Van Zandt. rip. |
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02-23-2018, 07:11 PM | #44 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Hope you aren't just a One Post Wonder. |
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02-23-2018, 07:15 PM | #45 | |
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02-23-2018, 07:21 PM | #46 | |
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On MLB Network... 52-year-old Al Leiter was giving a demonstration in the practice studio about getting your arm in shape for the season and he had remarkable control though he did not take any warmup throws on camera. I mean to tell you he was hitting his spots quite well... it was very impressive. Agree with you... the reliever should be warmed up and ready to go... he shouldn't need 6 pitches. |
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02-23-2018, 11:33 PM | #47 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Up There
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The one thing this thread hasn't discussed is how time of game data for MLB compares to other leagues. How much worse, or better, is MLB? This lack of comparison is understandable, as the data certainly isn't available in any sort of convenient form. But, as it happens, I've been tracking this data for all the main leagues for the past several seasons. Below are some results.
The data below is for the 2017 regular season (2017-18 in the case of the winter leagues). It is for all 9-inning games which lasted the normal regulation length (8½-9 innings, 51-54 outs). The figures are in minutes. The order the data is presented: mean, minimum, maximum, standard deviation, and lastly, the number of games in the sample. Leagues are ordered from longest mean time of game to shortest. Code:
Lg Mean Min Max StDev n= -------------------------------------- VWL* 208.0 148 281 27.2 214 DWL* 207.4 137 290 28.1 137 CPBL 205.8 147 318 28.0 215 KBO 196.5 129 290 24.1 654 MPL* 192.7 128 258 23.1 243 *** 188.1 127 266 22.5 771 CAA 187.4 117 334 27.9 257 MEX 185.4 103 278 24.2 714 MLB 185.2 125 273 20.9 2247 RCL* 182.0 139 236 24.9 22 NWL 177.4 125 238 19.9 274 ABL* 176.8 111 239 24.8 88 ALPB 175.7 127 310 21.6 436 PIO 175.4 129 258 24.2 277 PCL 173.4 121 252 20.0 954 CAL 173.2 116 278 19.4 502 AAIB 171.2 112 243 19.7 487 APP 169.8 99 239 21.2 272 NYP 169.0 122 243 19.9 406 CAR 168.9 115 254 20.1 534 MID 168.8 107 229 20.1 926 INT 167.9 118 233 18.8 794 FRON 166.4 110 298 24.2 463 TEX 165.6 112 230 17.9 479 SAL 165.4 107 233 19.8 760 SOU 165.0 117 240 18.9 547 EAS 161.8 114 283 18.9 637 FSL 157.7 109 220 18.9 635 AFL* 155.6 116 209 16.9 83 *winter league For those interested, below is a further breakdown of MLB and *** games. Code:
MLB Mean Min Max StDev n= -------------------------------------------------- AL games only: 187.4 133 273 21.1 990 NL games only: 183.4 125 262 20.4 980 -------------------------------------------------- all interleague: 183.5 135 242 21.1 277 NL at AL: 184.7 135 242 21.1 138 AL at NL: 182.4 136 228 21.2 139 *** Mean Min Max StDev n= -------------------------------------------------- CL games only: 186.1 134 259 21.7 330 PL games only: 190.0 130 266 22.9 344 all interleague: 187.7 127 260 23.0 97 *** games exhibited a similar split in time of game results between the leagues, with PL games taking nearly four minutes longer on average than CL games. It's interesting to note that both the AL and PL use the designated hitter whereas the NL and CL do not. |
02-24-2018, 10:03 AM | #48 |
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Based on the AL/NL split, can it be concluded that the DH lengthens the game by about four minutes?
And if so, how much does it lengthen the game per plate appearance? |
02-24-2018, 11:52 AM | #49 |
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Location: NW Arkansas
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02-24-2018, 08:54 PM | #50 | |
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Then modern-day pitchers might have a chance to compete record-wise with the old time stars. I don't think the 3-Ball 2-Strike Rule would drastically change any records and if it did, we have seen changes in records before. They change in each era... every few decades... but the public and ballplayers would adjust to them... perhaps, a little begrudgingly. I think the 3-Ball 2-Strike Rule would drastically speed up the game and make baseball a far more entertaining game and it wouldn't cause any critical changes in strategy or records. Last edited by Eugene Church; 02-24-2018 at 08:55 PM. |
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02-25-2018, 10:21 PM | #51 |
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02-25-2018, 10:37 PM | #52 |
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Indeed. It only seems like soccer games last longer.
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02-26-2018, 02:35 AM | #53 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 167
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Time of game is about weekday games ending at 10PM. People want to get the kids home at a reasonable time.
MLB already shaved the inning break times. They can't shave more - lost revenue. 3 balls 2 strikes changes the game too much. Here's a rule idea: A pitcher must pitch to a minimum of three batters unless he is injured or comes into the game with fewer than 3 outs remaining for the opposing team. Here's another rule: A starting pitcher must pitch a minimum of 6 innings unless he is injured. A starting pitcher who had less than 4 days rest since his last pitching appearance must pitch a minimum of 5 innings. |
02-26-2018, 08:33 AM | #54 |
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[QUOTE=fcabanski;4284024]Time of game is about weekday games ending at 10PM. People want to get the kids home at a reasonable time.
I agree however did you know if you show up at the start of the 7th inning of any given game you get in for free ... Not many know this but yet its true |
02-26-2018, 10:31 AM | #55 | |
Major Leagues
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Location: Houston
Posts: 439
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I really couldn't disagree more with this comment. Look at the sheer number of kids that play baseball. I'm one of roughly 10,000 NCAA D1 baseball players, and there's probably more than 10,000 across D2, D3, JUCO, and NAIA. Young people are very much interested in this game. Also, there's a reason baseball's money numbers are at an all-time high while inflation is at an all-time low. I mean just look at the difference in the AAV of contracts from 2008 to 2018. That money didn't just pop up because people are losing interest in the sport. Also, football is losing interest quickly. The head issues truly are altering decisions of young adults and which sports they play. The MLB also does a fantastic job with social media. MLB.TV makes streaming games easy, and they routinely share videos and highlights on platforms like twitter, instagram, and facebook. One of the reasons the NFL is losing popularity amongst people my age is because of their extreme blackout rules, not just on TV, but on social media platforms as well. I know it was hyperbole when you said you don't know anyone younger than 40 that cares a lick about the game, but look at all the players currently in the league, all the players across collegiate and high school athletics, and the millions of fans that file in the stadiums year in and year out. No, baseball may not be America's pastime, and it may not be the most popular sport in this country, but it is far from dead and far from dying |
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02-26-2018, 11:27 AM | #56 | |
Major Leagues
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Dallas
Posts: 325
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02-26-2018, 11:39 AM | #57 | |
Major Leagues
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Dallas
Posts: 325
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As far as the horse racing and boxing, it does seem like baseball will become more of a niche sport in the future (and if that's the case, I say screw trying to change the game for the casual fan and cater to the hardcores). But the honest truth is, I think the biggest change is the explosion of different forms of entertainment in the last 20 years. The internet has created a world where literally anything you want to do is on demand. That wasn't the case for most of the last century, where watching sports was one of, i don't know, eight different ways you could entertain yourself. I wonder if every sport is going to see a falling off of interest in the future. Baseballs average fan age is around 53, but the NFL's is 46. It's not like they're set up great for the future. Right now it seems like the NBA is the only league that is trending upward in terms of the interest of the coming generation. (Although I also wonder if the superteam era is going to have long term consequences that the league can't see, like the steroid era. It all seems fun now, but at some point people have to wake up and realize how out of wack competitive balance is in that sport.) Last edited by Jerry Helper; 02-26-2018 at 11:40 AM. |
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02-26-2018, 12:00 PM | #58 | ||
OOTP Developer
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Location: Here and there
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I do think they'll need some changes, because as much as they're taking in, there's always the chance it's a bubble. The games are getting longer, it's still the longest season by far of any sport, and there's no way your average fan is watching 3.5hrs X 162 games. I do think they need to bring the averages down below 3 hours, and the lengthening ABs is one of the biggest causes of that. Players are seeing more and more pitches, which is turning the game into more of a three-outcome game, and I don't think people just want to see K/BB/HR - would rather the action actually take place on the field. Something radical like going to a 3-2 system I'd worry that that would cause even more BB/K to happen, just because players have no room for error anymore. They probably need to experiment with actually tweaking the strike zone. Maybe there's a sweet spot in size and location where they can encourage more action to take place with actually reducing both K and BB. Or maybe the answer is a robot ump, where if pitchers know the exact zone, then you can get more matchups and less "finding the zone" during the play. But the first step is killing dead time. If they can shave off 10-15 minutes a game of watching players scratch their balls and readjust their gloves, then that's a great start. |
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02-26-2018, 12:15 PM | #59 | ||
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But the nerds are absolutely incapable of factoring one major element into their reasoning. And that is.... the HUMAN element. That was the one thing that made baseball great: HUMAN BEINGS. They have ignored the fact that baseball players are living breathing (and in some cases, despicable) people, and have consequently sucked all the greatness and all the magic out of the game. Baseball use to be magic. Now, it's insufferable. Managers are now puppets. (read: Aaron Boone/Alex Cora). The nerds upstairs run the show. Hey nerds! Thanks for making baseball suck. Another thing that murders baseball: Pace of play; the games have become interminably long. And in baseball's golden age, it was never like that. I did my own research with a clock. Average time between pitches in a game 30-35 years ago: 8-10 second. Average time now: 15-20. And those are games when David Price ISN'T pitching. Average time for commercial breaks 30-35 yrs ago 2:00 to 2:30. Average time now: a little over 3 minutes. In the end, It's really hard to follow a sport that keeps punching itself in the face. If baseball ended. I could care less. If OOTP ended, I'd be bummed. BTW, People didn't get hit in the face with foul balls 30-35 years ago because they didn't have smart phones. Quote:
Last edited by drksd4848; 02-26-2018 at 12:30 PM. |
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02-26-2018, 12:22 PM | #60 |
Minors (Triple A)
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 234
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In my opinion, baseball is way too old. Old meaning the people who watch the game. Most of the fans are older people... and I think baseball has the oldest spectators compared to other major sports. Maybe that's one of the reasons why it isn't as popular anymore. (I still enjoy baseball, why would I be on here if I didn't)
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