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Old 07-30-2019, 06:34 PM   #201
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going on year 6 with Plank in my starting rotation.... fairly solid for me so far... 2 time all star, 1 great glove award, pitched a no-hitter...
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Old 07-30-2019, 08:58 PM   #202
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So I have pretty much given up on completing any but the easiest collections for my teams. The players are just way too expensive on the AH and things haven't cooled off the way I have expected them to. In fact, in many cases, it's gotten worse.

For example, the World Champion Phillies collection, which nets you 97 Tug Mcgraw RP. I had Steve Carlton on two of my teams --- bought him for less than 20k PP on both of them before collections came out. I spent WEEKS trying to find Ruthven (75) and Reed (76) at decent prices to complete collection --- without success. So I decided to sell. I put him on with a BIN of 40k for one of my teams (more than twice what I paid). He literally sold "in minutes". So I listed him for a BIN of 50k for my other team. It took longer ---- about 6 hours --- before somebody took the BIN.

So what's interesting about that is that Tug McGraw (97) is actually "worse" than the 93 OVR Tug McGraw --- he is maybe worth 15k to 20k on the open market. I sold Carlton for 30k more than he is "worth" outside a collection when the entire collection nets a card less than that difference.

Another collection I had been trying to complete was the "Putting the Balls in Play" collection, but anybody selling Nellie Fox (74) continue to price it for 4k and up (seven-day average at 4k, all-time average at 800 --- it was only a few hundred before collections came out). So I decided to look at the selling end of some of the pieces. Today I unloaded Moreno (62) --- worth maybe 50 PP before collections for 4000 BIN.

I am just really mystified why people are overpaying so dramatically just to complete collections for so-so rewards.
For the most part, I agree with you. I've stated as much throughout this thread already. I did about 20 collections and then ran into a wall of hyperinflation with the others, so I ended up as a seller also.

It's not even really that the balance of reward vs expenditure to complete said collection is slanted toward paying substantially more than each SE reward card is worth.

For me, it's more that the collecting part isn't intrinsically fun like I'd hoped it would be. When you click on one mission, study it, find 1 of the 8 cards reasonably priced, another 3 overpriced by an order of magnitude or two, and the rest needed are completely absent. Then, you repeat the exercise for another half-dozen missions before simply concluding it's not worth the time. I mean, even the simple 1-star missions are generally much more difficult than they need to be. I feel like there should be more easy ones, but the marketplace has other ideas...

I ended up paying about 21K for the SE Eddie Plank (as a LIVE A's collection reward) and significantly less (maybe 5K for the LIVE Tigers?) for the SE Harry Heilmann and he's my DH now against LHP. So it's not unreasonable in some cases to get useful SE cards. I just wish the collecting part was a bit more fun, that you could find deals from time to time. That the single copy of Chien-Ming Wang available wasn't still being priced at 20K PP 1.5 months after that "easy" mission was published.

One thing to consider, though, even as I lament how much more I wish I enjoyed the missions--the collection missions have drastically changed the EV calculus for pack opening. Whereas pack opening felt like setting PP on fire in most cases, now you can hit on these cards needed for missions and they really prop up the PP you can recoup. Iron and bronze and silver cards, unplayable at most levels, are going for 1K, 3K, and 5K. These were in the tens and hundreds of PP a couple of months ago.

I'm not really sure what the fix is, or if one is even necessary. Some people seem to enjoy doing the collections just fine like they are now. There's just maybe others of us that will hardly bother with them in OOTP 21 unless going on each mission doesn't feel like getting extorted for some massive ransom of PP.
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Old 07-30-2019, 09:12 PM   #203
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The black hole in my collections are Silvers. Bronze and Iron, I'm choking on. Gold I can save up for at least a guaranteed one. But Silvers via packs...my kingdom for some silvers... As the season recedes, I'm inclined to spend less time and money too because there is diminishing return - that's why I wish they'd commit to this version of PT in OOTP 21 instead of wiping the slate. I'd invest more if the window of time to enjoy the rewards was longer.
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Old 07-30-2019, 09:39 PM   #204
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For the most part, I agree with you. I've stated as much throughout this thread already. I did about 20 collections and then ran into a wall of hyperinflation with the others, so I ended up as a seller also.

It's not even really that the balance of reward vs expenditure to complete said collection is slanted toward paying substantially more than each SE reward card is worth.

For me, it's more that the collecting part isn't intrinsically fun like I'd hoped it would be. When you click on one mission, study it, find 1 of the 8 cards reasonably priced, another 3 overpriced by an order of magnitude or two, and the rest needed are completely absent. Then, you repeat the exercise for another half-dozen missions before simply concluding it's not worth the time. I mean, even the simple 1-star missions are generally much more difficult than they need to be. I feel like there should be more easy ones, but the marketplace has other ideas...

I ended up paying about 21K for the SE Eddie Plank (as a LIVE A's collection reward) and significantly less (maybe 5K for the LIVE Tigers?) for the SE Harry Heilmann and he's my DH now against LHP. So it's not unreasonable in some cases to get useful SE cards. I just wish the collecting part was a bit more fun, that you could find deals from time to time. That the single copy of Chien-Ming Wang available wasn't still being priced at 20K PP 1.5 months after that "easy" mission was published.

One thing to consider, though, even as I lament how much more I wish I enjoyed the missions--the collection missions have drastically changed the EV calculus for pack opening. Whereas pack opening felt like setting PP on fire in most cases, now you can hit on these cards needed for missions and they really prop up the PP you can recoup. Iron and bronze and silver cards, unplayable at most levels, are going for 1K, 3K, and 5K. These were in the tens and hundreds of PP a couple of months ago.

I'm not really sure what the fix is, or if one is even necessary. Some people seem to enjoy doing the collections just fine like they are now. There's just maybe others of us that will hardly bother with them in OOTP 21 unless going on each mission doesn't feel like getting extorted for some massive ransom of PP.
Agree 100%. I just decided they weren't for me and have stopped looking. I'll take the extra points for some off my junk and focus on players I'm going to play with.
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Old 07-31-2019, 05:14 AM   #205
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For the most part, I agree with you. I've stated as much throughout this thread already....like getting extorted for some massive ransom of PP.

You summed up how collection mechanics usually go in multiplayer games with a free market. It will always be like this and I don't see a solution. I already know it's not going to be fun for me before it's made, which is why I voted for tournament. It's really a thing for the hardcore collectors and other player archetypes aren't really going to enjoy it. All the mode provides for me is extra income from unwanted cards.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:44 AM   #206
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Every once in a while I will glance at the missions tab on my 3 teams to see if any are nearing 50% completion, take a look to see what I'd need to complete, experience sticker shock, resume playing...

Missions aren't for everyone... The Live Tigers, tho, was and still is the best value by far imho... The ROI is fantastic.
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Old 07-31-2019, 08:53 AM   #207
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I'm still working on collections for the live teams, as they seem the most achievable without paying through the nose. I'm buying players I need as I see decent prices - so I'm not fixated on completing a specific collection. If a card if overpriced, I'll just move on to something else. Granted, eventually I may end up only needing certain overpriced cards but who knows, maybe supply will have caught up with demand by then!

As for the historical missions, yeah, they are problematic.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:25 AM   #208
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There is not a large enough supply of cards. This can be seen in both the historic cards whose value has skyrocketed and in the newly introduced live cards. I'm rushing to complete a number of live team missions before September callups.

Otherwise, I'm trying to target future missions before they drop. I was SO CLOSE to getting enough Browns on my collection team before the mission dropped, but I don't feel like paying 15k for Wally Judnich or 5k for Clint Courtney right now.

I haven't done the math, but I'm starting to think that packs may now be the more cost effective play. Any historical cards will net a tidy sum - if not now, then later as more missions drop.


Late Edit: The more I think about it, the more I fear the dev team may need to reevaluate the cost of packs. This inflation may stabilize, but it won't be going away. And considering that there have been indications that every team will eventually have their own historic missions, every card will be vulnerable, with those showing up more often in non-team missions being particularly vulnerable as speculators look for bottlenecks.
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Old 08-01-2019, 04:52 AM   #209
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There is not a large enough supply of cards. This can be seen in both the historic cards whose value has skyrocketed and in the newly introduced live cards. I'm rushing to complete a number of live team missions before September callups.

Otherwise, I'm trying to target future missions before they drop. I was SO CLOSE to getting enough Browns on my collection team before the mission dropped, but I don't feel like paying 15k for Wally Judnich or 5k for Clint Courtney right now.

I haven't done the math, but I'm starting to think that packs may now be the more cost effective play. Any historical cards will net a tidy sum - if not now, then later as more missions drop.


Late Edit: The more I think about it, the more I fear the dev team may need to reevaluate the cost of packs. This inflation may stabilize, but it won't be going away. And considering that there have been indications that every team will eventually have their own historic missions, every card will be vulnerable, with those showing up more often in non-team missions being particularly vulnerable as speculators look for bottlenecks.

Packs are not generous enough, the vast majority of the time you will get 5xiron 1xbronze, all live cards, they should guarantee one silver and one bronze imo, they seem afraid of giving too much value, when the reality is that most people realize these are terrible value and avoid, which also means that the collections which reward packs are also terrible value (you are paying less than 1k for a pack, but the return is still likely to be less than whatever you pay)

Not enough ways to earn packs. apart from a few collections and the one pack every 72 hours there is nothing. It's harsh to say but EA are more generous with giving out freebies than OOTP

All of this means that the market is reliant on people buying packs, which as discussed earlier is not good value for money. Combine this with people earning PP in game and inflation is inevitable which will either lead to people becoming super whales or bored. And as the year wears on they are less likely to become super whales.

Personally I would prefer if we got packs for silver and gold achievements, meaning more cards/less PP around
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Old 08-01-2019, 06:33 AM   #210
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Packs are not generous enough, the vast majority of the time you will get 5xiron 1xbronze, all live cards, they should guarantee one silver and one bronze imo,
No you don't, and no they shouldn't.

Odds for a 5-iron, 1-bronze pack are just under 20% before going into live/historical to begin with…
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:10 AM   #211
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It's not packs having sucky drop rates. It's just that there are not enough incentive to open packs as of now. Tournament would be a great addition cuz that's a great supply of packs if they are included in the prize pool.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:14 AM   #212
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No you don't, and no they shouldn't.

Odds for a 5-iron, 1-bronze pack are just under 20% before going into live/historical to begin with…
so do you feel the current situation with shortage of players (not talking about diamonds and up, but golds/silvers/bronzes) is fine?

do you think that somehow the OOTP team magically hit on the perfect pack odds with very little trial and error?

do you think that suggestions/constructive criticism should just be shot down instead of discussed?
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:22 AM   #213
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It's not packs having sucky drop rates. It's just that there are not enough incentive to open packs as of now. Tournament would be a great addition cuz that's a great supply of packs if they are included in the prize pool.
I think the developers are right to hold off on making changes until they see the impact of tournament rewards. If this doesn't increase the quantity of cards on the market, then something may need to be done. How about a World Series sale (50% off) on packs?
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:23 AM   #214
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I think the developers are right to hold off on making changes until they see the impact of tournament rewards. If this doesn't increase the quantity of cards on the market, then something may need to be done. How about a World Series sale (50% off) on packs?
Not a bad incentive. 500pp for a pack would cause me to open a bunch.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:26 AM   #215
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My pack team will be happy.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:45 AM   #216
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The quick sell equity of a standard pack is ~425. A random card has ~80 points of quick sale value plus the 25 bronze. Selling packs for 500 is way too low and would completely crash the market.

If the "guarantee" was AT LEAST a bronze instead of exactly a bronze, simply giving all the iron weight to bronze instead, a pack would be worth ~500 just in quick sale value. I think this is the easiest change to make to benefit everyone a bit.

This doesn't seem that bad to me, but it takes opening a lot of packs to realize that equity since so much of it is in rarely opened diamond/perfect cards and variance is a thing. Obviously a lot of cards sell for more than their quicksell value so the true value of a pack is somewhere above 425. I'd guess around 750, but it is also very tedious and time consuming to open all these packs and sell cards.
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Old 08-01-2019, 09:53 AM   #217
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IMO for next year, if the guaranteed cards were upgraded to be at least the advertised rarity and some achievements were converted to pack rewards then that would be a good direction.

It doesn't even have to be tied to current point value. For example "Be an all-star" can give a standard pack and pump some cards into the economy on thursday so players can upgrade their team for the stretch run. Then give packs for silver slugger/gold glove and gold packs for mvp/cy young/top category. This gives some control on exactly how many packs are getting created per week since the number of all-stars/awards winners in a league is obviously fixed.

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Old 08-01-2019, 10:49 AM   #218
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IMO for next year, if the guaranteed cards were upgraded to be at least the advertised rarity and some achievements were converted to pack rewards then that would be a good direction.

It doesn't even have to be tied to current point value. For example "Be an all-star" can give a standard pack and pump some cards into the economy on thursday so players can upgrade their team for the stretch run. Then give packs for silver slugger/gold glove and gold packs for mvp/cy young/top category. This gives some control on exactly how many packs are getting created per week since the number of all-stars/awards winners in a league is obviously fixed.
Good idea.
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:25 PM   #219
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I keep checking the Braves missions. Only to keep finding that the irons are still 800+ PP if not a sizzling 2k+

As I have a Braves team, and the Live mission finished already, it would be nice to be able to finish a couple more without breaking my bank.

I'm hoping the demand for said collections drops off and things return to being somewhat more reasonable in AH costs.
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:28 PM   #220
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I keep checking the Braves missions. Only to keep finding that the irons are still 800+ PP if not a sizzling 2k+

As I have a Braves team, and the Live mission finished already, it would be nice to be able to finish a couple more without breaking my bank.

I'm hoping the demand for said collections drops off and things return to being somewhat more reasonable in AH costs.
I'm a Mets fan, what cards are you looking for?
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