OOTP 17 Update #10 HOTFIX, Version 17.11.73 Available!

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by MKG1734

They have not been addressed. I see similar posts on these topics to this day. Also, Matt stated earlier (last night?) that they had not done much work on the engine since Ive posted these.

For the record, I started the request for having the new Bug Reports FORUM as opposed to the old thread which filled up and never had any answers. Sadly, though, you see so many bug reports that simply go unanswered.

As for my posts above ... If these are not "general concerns" then it is for one of two reasons: #1: people don't pay enough attention to realize that they exist (they do, and they occur over, and over, and over, and over, and over) or #2: they realize they exist but they don't care ... which, well, I can't help that.

And - honestly - read thru those bug reports above. You don't feel they're major? You can honestly look at those and don't think there are major underlying issues? I dont think an honest analysis would allow you to make that assertion.

And, frankly, the above posts are just a very small sampling of the issues. I literally have approximately 100-125 similar issues earmarked on my computer with screen shots. But, the issues above - along with several others - were never worked on, so I stopped wasting my time (and money, hence, not purchasing the game this year). If you pay attention, more and more and more ppl are stating (and publicly!) that they won't purchase the game next year.

More concerning to the development team will be new purchasers of the game who don't have the same loyality that you and some others do when they see the litany of game-breaking problems the game now has.

It would behoove the the development staff to step back and devote full-out effort to fixing and possibly re-writing the logic engine to get the game on a strong footing as opposed to stacking up the house of cards higher and higher on the weak foundation it currently is built on.

True, about the loyalty. I go far back, way back, to when this type of sports simulation game was not even a twinkle in anybody's eye. I've seen a lot of crap, in all types of programs, simulations, and games since then. This OOTPB happens to be one of the best programs, simulations, and games I have ever seen and the responsiveness and involvement of the developers with the community is also refreshingly novel to me.

That is why I am loyal, yes.

Also true could be me being in one of the two groups that you define, #1 and/or #2. I may not pay as much attention as you and others do to such transactions. I enjoy the game at a higher level, I guess, not meaning to disparage those at lower altitudes.

Look, one thing is for sure: You are well-spoken and argue forcefully and I respect that. It's just that when you say things like "Markus. Matt. You are in the process of hurting the game's future. Sure, not for some people who will buy it, even if it is broken. Those people don't matter in a business sense, though, when it comes to growing your base" and "What some members above say - who will defend the game ad nauseum - NEW buyers, who aren't already loyal like so many have been, will not come back to a game that doesn't work well," I think you are going over the top.

Overall, you are not being fair or objective.

[Déjà Bru]

Plus I find it a bit disingenuous in that your comments, while seemingly inspired by concern for OOTPD losing new customers, could in fact have that very effect.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by mitchkenn

yes. this was one of the main features that i bought 17 for. i either misunderstood or was misinformed that we could combine our self created minors with the historical. i understand why it doesn't work now. But if the minors were expanded back to 1900 (unaffiliated i realize - but there were minor leagues then) that might get me back to pre-ordering. Toss in the Negro Leagues as an alternate, but equal, league where we could play them & majors, and then play a WS between them .... wow !!! .... as of now, i'm content with this version and will have to see what 18 offers when it unfolds.

The OOTP MiLB database goes back to the 1880's but only affiliated minors are currently available.

The historical Negro Leagues would need to interact with MLB in exhibitions/series as were done in the 1920's. They called them the Cuban-American Series back in the day since Negros could not play in them unless they could pass as Cubans. There were also Cuban-Negro Series as well.

I hope the Negro Leagues make an appearance in OOTP18 and that the issues with the historical minors get fixed. There are not a lot of issues but they are annoying. Since players can fix them by hand they should be able to be adjusted automagically. For myself I need to be both brain dead and able to use the historical minors concurrently.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I think it would be so cool if Markus, Matt, Spritze could get historical minors to work as advertised. But, that's such a huge if. The entire idea is just huge. But, Spritze already created the player database. Why not let us use the Spritze minor league player database with generic OOTP/self created minors? Sure, I would love to watch the history of the real Texas League evolve, but until that works, I would love to start in say 1921 and simply have access to the extra players Spritze has already created. Hopefully, this makes sense.

Unfortunately, historical minors will never be seperate from the historical major league. Coding this would be way too time.consuming and only a handful of customers would care about it. Also, it would result in unrealistic scenarious.

Or maybe I misunderstood you? In any event, the way historical minors now work is the way it is designed and intended. The only thing still missing is individual player import from the historical minor league database.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by MKG1734

They have not been addressed. I see similar posts on these topics to this day. Also, Matt stated earlier (last night?) that they had not done much work on the engine since Ive posted these.

For the record, I started the request for having the new Bug Reports FORUM as opposed to the old thread which filled up and never had any answers. Sadly, though, you see so many bug reports that simply go unanswered.

As for my posts above ... If these are not "general concerns" then it is for one of two reasons: #1: people don't pay enough attention to realize that they exist (they do, and they occur over, and over, and over, and over, and over) or #2: they realize they exist but they don't care ... which, well, I can't help that.

And - honestly - read thru those bug reports above. You don't feel they're major? You can honestly look at those and don't think there are major underlying issues? I dont think an honest analysis would allow you to make that assertion.

And, frankly, the above posts are just a very small sampling of the issues. I literally have approximately 100-125 similar issues earmarked on my computer with screen shots. But, the issues above - along with several others - were never worked on, so I stopped wasting my time (and money, hence, not purchasing the game this year). If you pay attention, more and more and more ppl are stating (and publicly!) that they won't purchase the game next year.

More concerning to the development team will be new purchasers of the game who don't have the same loyality that you and some others do when they see the litany of game-breaking problems the game now has.

It would behoove the the development staff to step back and devote full-out effort to fixing and possibly re-writing the logic engine to get the game on a strong footing as opposed to stacking up the house of cards higher and higher on the weak foundation it currently is built on.

Well, as far as I am aware, there are no crucial AI issues with the simulation engine. The engine is being worked on every single year, it gets improved by customer feedback and bug fixing. Some areas will obviously never be perfect (ER scoring for example, too complex to code it 100% correct) and you could of course argue about some AI decisions (heck, we do this all the time with real life managers), but as a whole I think we are in really good shape. If you disagree, please write up a detailed explanation of the issues you see and PM me, I'm happy to take a look.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Unfortunately, historical minors will never be seperate from the historical major league. Coding this would be way too time.consuming and only a handful of customers would care about it. Also, it would result in unrealistic scenarious.

Or maybe I misunderstood you? In any event, the way historical minors now work is the way it is designed and intended. The only thing still missing is individual player import from the historical minor league database.

I wasn't asking for it to be separate from historical major leagues at all. I was asking for access to the historical minor league player database, so we can create generic OOTP created minors(just like we've been doing for years)...For example, I could create a historic league starting in 1921 and the league would be setup with the 16 teams 2 subleague of 8 according to history. I could then have the option of how many levels of minors I want(just like we do now if we don't use historical minors) and the game would create those levels in the form of my major league, assigning each team an affiliate. We could then release all players and hold a draft. Unlike now when you start a historical league and pretty much have to use low or very low injuries, the added minor league players would allow us use of the normal to high injury settings making for a more realistic replay.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I wasn't asking for it to be separate from historical major leagues at all. I was asking for access to the historical minor league player database, so we can create generic OOTP created minors(just like we've been doing for years)...For example, I could create a historic league starting in 1921 and the league would be setup with the 16 teams 2 subleague of 8 according to history. I could then have the option of how many levels of minors I want(just like we do now if we don't use historical minors) and the game would create those levels in the form of my major league, assigning each team an affiliate. We could then release all players and hold a draft. Unlike now when you start a historical league and pretty much have to use low or very low injuries, the added minor league players would allow us use of the normal to high injury settings making for a more realistic replay.

Sorry, I have read this three times, but I do not get the point. Do you want a real MLB historical league, but with a fictional minor league setup (mirroring # of MLB teams, times the number of minor league levels) and then fill those with real historical minor leaguers? You can do this already.... import the year, with historical minors, delete the historical minor leagues after import, add your desired new minor leagues, schedule the draft and start.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Sorry, I have read this three times, but I do not get the point. Do you want a real MLB historical league, but with a fictional minor league setup (mirroring # of MLB teams, times the number of minor league levels) and then fill those with real historical minor leaguers? You can do this already.... import the year, with historical minors, delete the historical minor leagues after import, add your desired new minor leagues, schedule the draft and start.

Ugh! I never even thought of that. I do have one question though. What happens the following season? Won't OOTP change my self created minor league system to a historical format. For example, if it's 1921, won't it want to create the Texas League and Pacific Coast leagues? Will I get minor league players for my following year draft?

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Ugh! I never even thought of that. I do have one question though. What happens the following season? Won't OOTP change my self created minor league system to a historical format. For example, if it's 1921, won't it want to create the Texas League and Pacific Coast leagues? Will I get minor league players for my following year draft?

You can disable the auto-expansion of the major league, that will take care of the minors, too.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

You can disable the auto-expansion of the major league, that will take care of the minors, too.

This sounds great. This will allow me to create fictional historical league with real players. With access to the minor league players, I will be able to use normal or high for injuries. Exactly what I've been looking for. Will have to test this out when I get home from work. Thanks.

[Orcin]

In year 2 of this league, what happens to the draft class? Some players are already there, but some are not. Do the missing players come in, or do duplicate players come in, i.e. one from the minor league database and a second version from the draft class?

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Orcin

In year 2 of this league, what happens to the draft class? Some players are already there, but some are not. Do the missing players come in, or do duplicate players come in, i.e. one from the minor league database and a second version from the draft class?

No, duplicate players are prevented automatically.

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

You can disable the auto-expansion of the major league, that will take care of the minors, too.

Since we're talking about this, can you disable auto-expansion of *JUST* the historical minor leagues? I like not having to move all the big league teams around manually anymore, so if I had to turn off major league auto-expansion to keep the minor leagues from being reorganized every year, that would be kind of a bummer.

[rpriske]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

Is constructive criticism good for the future of the franchise and the general well being of the overall product? Absolutely

If you think that saying this is constructive criticism...

You are in the process of hurting the game's future. Sure, not for some people who will buy it, even if it is broken. Those people don't matter in a business sense, though, when it comes to growing your base.

Well, we have a different definition of 'constructive'.

The idea that they should rip out the AI and start over is ludicrous.

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by statfreak

The problem with that is I don't want to see the default stats, I want the game to use my custom views. I suppose they could make a setting that asks which view should be the default on each screen.

Boy! You making a good case for THE D*CK OF THE DAY award. I'm getting offended just by reading your post. NOT happily married I suppose?

BTW, MIne almost nearly all the time goes to correct stats. 99.999% Must be a crap PC you got

Sorry guys...I just had to

[Lukas Berger]

Please don't turn this thread into a flame war guys.

People can criticize the game if they want/need to. We'll even use whatever parts of the criticisms are valid to improve the game in the future.

I understand that the tone of some of the complaints can be a bit irritating, but attacking the guys making the complaints really doesn't help out at all. If you're a fan of OOTP and want to help out, please don't do so by attacking those who bring up some perceived issues, even if their tone is less than 100% perfect. It doesn't actually help defend OOTP any, it just makes the boards more toxic.

In the end more people are likely to get turned off of the game by seeing a toxic atmosphere here on the boards with lots of personal attacks going back and forth than they are by a few legitimate or even less than legitimate complaints and criticisms posted here.

If you want to help out, then post about the things you like about the game, what it gets right, what makes you excited about it, and just try to let the negative stuff go and let people have their say in peace.

[Bunktown Ballers]

I am a "loyal" customer as some say. I've been playing this game since "Season Ticket" a long freaking time. I'm just at 97 post now. A ton of people on these boards are in the 1,000's. Where do you have time to play? I have NOT had a major issue as some first timers have had. I just don't get what's going on. Are they turning off PC while game is open? SMH..I just don't get what's going on. I'll apologize now that every year I buy this game it operates at near 100% of what is advertised, except for minor stuff. Being only a game, man can't beat OOTP, even with a big ass stick. Nothing even comes close. Markus keep on keeping on & don't care how much you improve, someone will find something to gripe about. If I could pay 10 years in advance I would even if you would shutdown in 2 years. I figure I'm still ahead in the enjoyment your team has giving me. I will quit playing OOTP when I die
Thanks a million from a lifelong FANBOY.

[Bunktown Ballers]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

please don't turn this thread into a flame war guys.

People can criticize the game if they want/need to. We'll even use whatever parts of the criticisms are valid to improve the game in the future.

I understand that the tone of some of the complaints can be a bit irritating, but attacking the guys making the complaints really doesn't help out at all. If you're a fan of ootp and want to help out, please don't do so by attacking those who bring up some perceived issues, even if their tone is less than 100% perfect. It doesn't actually help defend ootp any, it just makes the boards more toxic.

In the end more people are likely to get turned off of the game by seeing a toxic atmosphere here on the boards with lots of personal attacks going back and forth than they are by a few legitimate or even less than legitimate complaints and criticisms posted here.

If you want to help out, then post about the things you like about the game, what it gets right, what makes you excited about it, and just try to let the negative stuff go and let people have their say in peace.

it can also turn off many many lifetime users that have zero issues at all too. Don't turn the people that helped make this game what it is today. You just made a case for that happening!

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

it can also turn off many many lifetime users that have zero issues at all too. Don't turn the people that helped make this game what it is today. You just made a case for that happening!

Like Lukas, I don't want to get into the negative stuff. I just want to say that Lukas has helped far more users than he has driven away (most likely none). He has a big hand in the rosters and is really helpful on the forums and is always friendly about it.

Oh, and me and statfreak go back a ways on the boards and he is anything but what you called him.

[tward13]

Originally Posted by Bunktown Ballers

Boy! You making a good case for THE D*CK OF THE DAY award. I'm getting offended just by reading your post. NOT happily married I suppose?

BTW, MIne almost nearly all the time goes to correct stats. 99.999% Must be a crap PC you got

Sorry guys...I just had to

Unless there was a lot more to his post you didn't quote, what was so bad about the quoted part?

And just because some people accept, and are perfectly happy with everything OOTP has put out, others would like some changes. OOTP is even asking for suggestions in this forum.