How have you been enjoying OOTP 17? How does it rate a few months later?

[thirdsaint]

I loved all the new features and everything they added pretty much. The only disappointing thing for me is I still, more or less, have a broken game. I mean, I'm getting through a season but it's a slog because I can't sim beyond 1 day at a time. I won't get into the details here since I've detailed my issue in the bug reports and uploaded my file a couple weeks after 17 was released. Still haven't heard back so I'm trucking along. I'm hoping 18 fixes the issue. If I went ahead with my season in 16 the same issue doesn't happen so I know it's a problem with 17's coding.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

.

Look, I may get pounded here for saying this stuff and I am willing to take my lumps. I love this game and I want to be convinced that either I am full of hooey about an unfair advantage against human players in 17 or perhaps there are other folks out there who can verify my claims?

Deja Bru, I'm just like you... I dearly and preciously love OOTPB... it is a truly marvelous creation... but I still will criticize it... but with love... I have mellowed much since 2002 and am less severe on Markus than I used to be.

Being a perfectionist, I have learned over the years that OOTPB is extremely complex, extremely hard to program and may not be programmed JUST FOR MY LIKES AND DISLIKES... I am not their target customer.

In general, I really like OOTP17... although it is a wonderful addition, the minor leagues did not meet my expectations... I want the rosters to be accurate for EACH SEASON, NOT JUST THE FIRST SEASON... I found this not to be the case... so I don't use the minor league historicals... BUT, I'm sure Markus and the crew will work out the kinks in the coming years and one day I will use them... same thing for the 3D graphics and sound... I don't use them... and won't until they perfect it... but in time they will.

Being computer and OOTPB challenged, I could be the problem in the minor league historicals not working properly... I'm am quite limited technically.

On a small note... I love the game recaps... they are a great addition to the game... however it will be a lot of work for the Beta Text Team to make sure they don't use the same recaps over and over and over ad nauseum... I remember OOTP3 had just 5 Shutout News Stories... they were repeated 50 times each season just in the Majors... then repeated over and over and over again for each minor league.

Markus was notorious for just putting 5 descriptions in each new category... all he wanted was to get the feature into the game and hopefully the Beta Text Team would expand them so they were not so repetitious.

I volunteered for the Beta Team in 2006 and wrote about 200 different Shutout News Stories... also did the same thing for the next few years for other News Story categories and the PBP text.

Beta Text Team: let me know if you need help expanding the recaps or other News Stories and PBP... willing to help out.

I'm am looking forward with great excitement and much enthusiasm to using OOTP17 for my new Southern Association Dynasty replay.

[sley]

No version of OOTP Baseball has ever been a great computer game but they have been very good baseball simulation games, which is what I have continuously purchased them for. There have always been too many annoying flaws that carry over from version to version that never get fixed no matter how many complaints, bug reports, tech support tickets, dat files or screen shots are submitted to make it a great game. While I have greatly appreciated attempts made by tech support, too often the catch-all phrases “the issue is not a game breaker” or “it’s intrinsic to your system” are the final solutions. I also don’t think it’s fair that we hope an issue is addressed in the next version. I don’t smoke, there are only 2 of us and it rains a lot where I live, but if the cigarette lighter, rear cup holder and sun roof didn’t work on my new car, I would not be happy to hear from the dealership that I’d have buy next years model to use those accessories.

Version 17 is no different. I will admit that I was not a big fan of 3d play but have come around some even though, among other things, catchers still throw out runners at first base after running down a bunt in short left field. AI, scouting, story lines, trading have not improved or even kept up with the attempts to expand or add additional functions. I have similar issues with game play that some of the other posters in this thread have but I realize this is not the bug report thread. I know there many players who are fortunate enough not to have issues or problems but looking at past and present tech support and bug report pages there are many of us that do. I just can’t bring myself to gush over the game or give it very high grades when asked. OOTP Baseball is just a very good simulation game, nothing more, which is why I will to continue purchase it.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

1. Give the AI cheats like being able to see true coach ratings while human players fumble with fuzzy nonsense in evaluating coaches.
2. Penalize human players so that the AI looks "smarter, more cunning" but in reality:
   • Human scouts are dumber than ever.
   • Draft choices go bust much more often than not.
   • Players for human teams seem to suffer performance penalties which are often immediately lifted when they are traded or released and play for AI teams
   • Players do not develop well, even with excellent coaches (obtained by editor subterfuge)
3. And here is the kicker: Number 2 is most often noticeable after human success. Three times, three different leagues, the same thing happened: In the inaugural draft, I select the best SP's available, win in the first few years, then a cloud descends and nothing, but nothing goes right. World Series rings, followed by five straight years of 100-loss seasons? Five straight number one draft choices go bust? Nobody is ready to move up to the ML from any draft round in five years? Like it was choreographed to offset initial success.
4. Meanwhile, I think they also ramped up and now overdo the player unhappiness module so that you end up in a death spiral: Bad seasons = bad moods = bad performances = bad seasons, no matter what leadership you bring in.

Uhm. Simple answer: No. Of course the AI does not cheat... even coding a cheating AI would be pretty time-consuming and simply would not make sense at all.

So, what you state is just a case of small sample size and some bad luck. Nothing else.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by sley

No version of OOTP Baseball has ever been a great computer game but they have been very good baseball simulation games, which is what I have continuously purchased them for. There have always been too many annoying flaws that carry over from version to version that never get fixed no matter how many complaints, bug reports, tech support tickets, dat files or screen shots are submitted to make it a great game. While I have greatly appreciated attempts made by tech support, too often the catch-all phrases “the issue is not a game breaker” or “it’s intrinsic to your system” are the final solutions. I also don’t think it’s fair that we hope an issue is addressed in the next version. I don’t smoke, there are only 2 of us and it rains a lot where I live, but if the cigarette lighter, rear cup holder and sun roof didn’t work on my new car, I would not be happy to hear from the dealership that I’d have buy next years model to use those accessories.

Version 17 is no different. I will admit that I was not a big fan of 3d play but have come around some even though, among other things, catchers still throw out runners at first base after running down a bunt in short left field. AI, scouting, story lines, trading have not improved or even kept up with the attempts to expand or add additional functions. I have similar issues with game play that some of the other posters in this thread have but I realize this is not the bug report thread. I know there many players who are fortunate enough not to have issues or problems but looking at past and present tech support and bug report pages there are many of us that do. I just can’t bring myself to gush over the game or give it very high grades when asked. OOTP Baseball is just a very good simulation game, nothing more, which is why I will to continue purchase it.

Sorry, I have to disagree. We work a great deal to fix / improve issues that our users bring up, each and every year. So, since I have no idea what specifically you are talking about, it's probably a matter of you not liking our design decisions or your issues are so unique that we cannot spend the time needed to fix them becuase it's not worth it. Or you are simply a perfectionist, but here I have bad news, things like AI will never be perfect. And stuff like scouting is more a personal preference (how much fog of war do I want? How may overrated prospects? etc.) which you can tweak in the game yourself to your taste, to a certain degree.

Anyway, my point is that we listen, we work hard to fix problems and improve basics like the AI. And anybody who thinks otherwise is simply mistaken.

[pgjocki]

To put something in context for the group:

I have bought every certain of OOTP since I found the game with OOTP 13. It is the only software/application that is a must buy every year.

In that same time I have cut back on going to movies, the bar, and my wife has paid for my MLB.TV subscription as she knows how much I enjoy baseball and for some reason likes having me home more.

So, thank you Marcus and company.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by DustinthePOWERHOUSE

I would LOVE that feature, problem is I think he said a while back there just isn't enough interest in the feature or it's difficult to program. Regardless it would be a tremendous addition seeing as currently adding college/high school feeders is tedious and the programs don't act correctly.

I think you're right that interest in an NCAA setup is low, but the big problem with adding the NCAA to the game is negotiating with the NCAA to get those rights. That's another license that Markus would need to acquire, and the NCAA is going to want a big piece of the pie considering the license would require rights to logos for every school. I can promise you that would significantly raise the cost of the game for consumers, just to implement a feature not many people are rabid about.

[Habsfan18]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I think you're right that interest in an NCAA setup is low, but the big problem with adding the NCAA to the game is negotiating with the NCAA to get those rights. That's another license that Markus would need to acquire, and the NCAA is going to want a big piece of the pie considering the license would require rights to logos for every school. I can promise you that would significantly raise the cost of the game for consumers, just to implement a feature not many people are rabid about.

You don't necessarily have to acquire the NCAA rights though. People were playing MLB set-ups with OOTP for years before Markus got the rights. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of having league rights in OOTP, but really the main importance is the ability to officially use the logos. But with the amazing modding community on here (and the add-ons central to help simplify it for new players) it would be pretty simple for us to add the logos and uniforms ourselves. Heck, I'm pretty sure I have the NCAA uniforms already in one of my many OOTP folders. I think the biggest hurdle would be the school format and things such as age rules etc, and how it would interact with Major Leagues in the game (drafts, and having drafted but un-signed high schoolers commit and play multiple years with a school before re-entering).

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

You don't necessarily have to acquire the NCAA rights though. People were playing MLB set-ups with OOTP for years before Markus got the rights. I'm not trying to downplay the importance of having league rights in OOTP, but really the main importance is the ability to officially use the logos. But with the amazing modding community on here (and the add-ons central to help simplify it for new players) it would be pretty simple for us to add the logos and uniforms ourselves. Heck, I'm pretty sure I have the NCAA uniforms already in one of my many OOTP folders. I think the biggest hurdle would be the school format and things such as age rules etc, and how it would interact with Major Leagues in the game (drafts, and having drafted but un-signed high schoolers commit and play multiple years with a school before re-entering).

If you want OOTP to come with the NCAA name and official school logos when you buy it, Markus is going to need to a acquire a license for the same reason that he had to take MLB team names out and subsequently acquire a license from MLB.

The best way for folks to have the NCAA added to their game is through a community mod, which you just said you're already taking advantage of.

[Habsfan18]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

If you want OOTP to come with the NCAA name and official school logos when you buy it, Markus is going to need to a acquire a license for the same reason that he had to take MLB team names out and subsequently acquire a license from MLB.

The best way for folks to have the NCAA added to their game is through a community mod, which you just said you're already taking advantage of.

I guess for me, the main reason to add the NCAA to the game (without the logo since the cost probably wouldn't make sense for Markus) would be for the ability to have the school system run alongside our Major League's. Would improve the whole draft system, IMO.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by markus heinsohn

sorry, i have to disagree. We work a great deal to fix / improve issues that our users bring up, each and every year. So, since i have no idea what specifically you are talking about, it's probably a matter of you not liking our design decisions or your issues are so unique that we cannot spend the time needed to fix them becuase it's not worth it. Or you are simply a perfectionist, but here i have bad news, things like ai will never be perfect. And stuff like scouting is more a personal preference (how much fog of war do i want? How may overrated prospects? Etc.) which you can tweak in the game yourself to your taste, to a certain degree.

Anyway, my point is that we listen, we work hard to fix problems and improve basics like the ai. And anybody who thinks otherwise is simply mistaken.

Amen, Brother Markus.... Aaa...Men!

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

I guess for me, the main reason to add the NCAA to the game (without the logo since the cost probably wouldn't make sense for Markus) would be for the ability to have the school system run alongside our Major League's. Would improve the whole draft system, IMO.

I agree with you, but the cost for the NCAA and/or school logos would be high and would assuredly increase the cost of the game, probably substantially.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by Habsfan18

I guess for me, the main reason to add the NCAA to the game (without the logo since the cost probably wouldn't make sense for Markus) would be for the ability to have the school system run alongside our Major League's. Would improve the whole draft system, IMO.

I'm sure at some point we'll get around to revamping the feeder system, and at that point, I'm sure we'll dig a bit deeper into how the current HS/NCAA system is set out, and probably see what from that idea would make sense to us. But it will almost certainly not be an "NCAA" league.

[Barkingturtle]

This is my least played version ever.

I keep running into what are, for me, game-breaking issues.

It began with the best free agents making ludicrous demands before settling each year for single season contracts below market value. This killed the fictional league I'd been playing since version 15. Close to forty years of smooth finances undone in just a single update. I found that newly created fictional leagues suffered the same fate.

So I decided to give historical a try, since we have these awesome historical minors now. I wanted to start a replay in 1920 without importing the deadball era's history, turn on the development engine and see what happens. But come the very first off-season, players who had missed the 1920 season were added into the league -- along with their histories. Suddenly, my records contained seasons prior to the beginning of my league. A thread was made in the bug reports forum, and we were told this is working as intended. I'll likely never touch historical again if this does not change, except for the rare random debut league.

So I've been essentially forced to try the standard game if I'm going to play OOTP17. I give it a go. I get a few seasons in, when I realize there are duplicate coaches in my game. Scott Servais has been coaching the Mariners as well as acting as my bench coach. Suddenly, I realize many coaches from foreign leagues are zero years old. Many are named NULL. The trouble here is I feel like the standard game receives a ton of attention, and yet it is always like this. It is always infested with errors.

I'm at the point now where I may try to start another fictional league, but frankly I picked up Footballl Manager -- despite knowing nothing about soccer -- and it's somehow satisfying my sports-managment sim itch better than OOTP this year. Which makes me sad, because I love baseball and feel mostly derision for soccer.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

But it will almost certainly not be an "NCAA" league.

I would think programming in the real and perceived corruption would be a major chore.

[mitchkenn]

If this ain't a perfect game - well, it's pretty close for my usage. i bought it as a sim game and still only play that mode ... been with it for a while, 13, 14,16,17. (even had the original Season Ticket Baseball). What works for me, is the ability to add players, edit and tweak to my rather peculiar tastes. I know others play it differently for different reasons and more than likely those areas could use some tweaking/expanding. I am looking to the point the minors are able to go back to 1901 (even if unaffiliated) or so that self generated minors will work until the "real" minors are full of teams for all franchises (that may not ever happen, but i can hope ..). If they get around to tossing in the Negro Leagues, that would be incredible for me ... but hey, i can do that myself (to an acceptable degree for my universe) and still enjoy the heck out of my experience. So, basically i'm loving 17, waiting for 18 in hope MY desired tweaks are included ... if not, oh well, i'm still a fan and customer.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle

This is my least played version ever.

I keep running into what are, for me, game-breaking issues.

It began with the best free agents making ludicrous demands before settling each year for single season contracts below market value. This killed the fictional league I'd been playing since version 15. Close to forty years of smooth finances undone in just a single update. I found that newly created fictional leagues suffered the same fate.

So I decided to give historical a try, since we have these awesome historical minors now. I wanted to start a replay in 1920 without importing the deadball era's history, turn on the development engine and see what happens. But come the very first off-season, players who had missed the 1920 season were added into the league -- along with their histories. Suddenly, my records contained seasons prior to the beginning of my league. A thread was made in the bug reports forum, and we were told this is working as intended. I'll likely never touch historical again if this does not change, except for the rare random debut league.

So I've been essentially forced to try the standard game if I'm going to play OOTP17. I give it a go. I get a few seasons in, when I realize there are duplicate coaches in my game. Scott Servais has been coaching the Mariners as well as acting as my bench coach. Suddenly, I realize many coaches from foreign leagues are zero years old. Many are named NULL. The trouble here is I feel like the standard game receives a ton of attention, and yet it is always like this. It is always infested with errors.

I'm at the point now where I may try to start another fictional league, but frankly I picked up Footballl Manager -- despite knowing nothing about soccer -- and it's somehow satisfying my sports-managment sim itch better than OOTP this year. Which makes me sad, because I love baseball and feel mostly derision for soccer.

I'm wondering if the historical issue you described above could be avoided if you started several years in advance of when you actually want to start and then simmed ahead to your starting point. For example, you said you started in 1920. What if you start in 1914, sim ahead to 1918, then turn on maintain historical minors. I'm guessing you could erase league history for the period you simmed(thus zeroing out all stats for a fresh start) and not face issues with a player that missed 1920 in real life appearing in 1921 with all his stats and ruining your leader board. Reason being, that player would already be in your league. Of course, if you want to start with exact 1920 rosters, this won't work, but I think it would work for a draft type setup. I'm currently doing something like this and I sure hope it works. When historical infield fielding was fixed in the last patch, I started a historical league in 1906. I erased all league history so every player started fresh. I soon realized, I'm just not a huge fan of deadball baseball and simmed ahead to 1919. Point being, my leader boards are from 1906 forward and I don't think I will see issues with players that missed a season importing with all their stats. Fingers crossed. I guess I should mention that when I started in 1906, I actually started in 1901 and simmed ahead to 1906 to build up enough players to use normal injuries.

[jofos]

My last two saved games have quit working. Not enjoying OOTP 17 at all lately.

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by jofos

My last two saved games have quit working. Not enjoying OOTP 17 at all lately.

have you tried restoring from back-up? i had a similar problem and it was a corrupt world.dat file ..... i save 3 or 4 previous seasons before i delete anything and found one that worked and that saved me. i also make a point of saving my "Saved-games" folder at least once a season (usually 2) since i had that episode. Best advice i've seen here is to PM Big-Rod, short of unlicense, uninstall and reinstall. And that get's pretty drastic.

Good luck.

[Leefoo]

DejaBru...thanks for that refreshing post. I felt like the lone voice in the wilderness when I panned 17 when it first came out. It did nothing for me. I still saw too many moves like Hank Aaron being moved in to SS as a "2" when a perfectly legitimate SS was on the bench or already playing out of position. That is still probably my biggest beef with the OOTP AI.

I am sorry now that I paid to be an early bird.

And, I was called a "whiner" when I complained about your first point:

The Upcoming Schedule and my division's Standings in the top window are handy. Not really. They are ungainly, compared to how 16 was laid out as to the schedule and considering I don't have to see the standings all the time, especially if they are shown in my Manager's Office page.

And this summed up exactly how I feel

That's why I have gone back to 16. That version looked better and played better, in my opinion. 17 is going on the shelf, to be kept only as a possible gateway for my league to go to 18. Maybe.

I have only played 5 years, but I am not going to buy another version until I see how 18 (or 19) shakes out. And, even then, if I buy, I will wait until another summer sale.

Not that OOTP isn't overall a great game. But unless the things like the above AI issue I mentioned get fixed, for me, all these bells and whistles that were seemingly the only things added to 17, aren't worth it.

If only I could buy current seasons and plug them into 16, but I understand why the game won't let you do it.

I will stick with 16. It does just about every thing I want, esp since most of my time is spent with historical seasons.