Feeder leagues are broken -- what's wrong and how to fix it - Page 4

mbyrd75 · 06-08-2018, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stealofhome

Definitely, but I also turned off two-way players at the same time so I don't know what kind of an impact that had. I was previously getting about 17% of the top 300 players at C/SS/CF with 20% DH. Now I'm getting closer to 20-25% C/SS/CF with only 10% DH. Much of those DH players are now showing up as pitchers in the top players. My guess is that the pitching ratings were so low that too many hitters were getting into the top players.

That's great news. So the 2 way players must be throwing off the curve of player creation. Less batters overall = less in the skill positions?

When you make your feeders do you turn the draft setting in your major league to generate 0 players? Or if your draft is 30 rounds are you still letting it generate 31 rounds worth of players?

I'm a little confused if those generated players are going into the feeders or going straight to the draft.

stealofhome · 06-08-2018, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyrd75

That's great news. So the 2 way players must be throwing off the curve of player creation. Less batters overall = less in the skill positions?

When you make your feeders do you turn the draft setting in your major league to generate 0 players? Or if your draft is 30 rounds are you still letting it generate 31 rounds worth of players?

I'm a little confused if those generated players are going into the feeders or going straight to the draft.

Not really sure if it was the two way players or the new ootp build since I changed both at the same time. I have the settings to generate players for 35 rounds but the draft is feeder players only. The players get generated in either high school or college at the minimum age for each and then play there until eligible for the draft.

The high potential players almost always get drafted and sign so almost none of them play both high school and college. I haven't found a way to game that system to have a good proportion of high school and college draftees while getting a bunch of high potential high schoolers to college.

stealofhome · 06-12-2018, 10:15 PM

Okay this is what I've been having pretty good success with - enough success that I feel comfortable sticking with it. Since my HS/College feeder leagues force the players to be created at the league minimum age, I have to change the PCM values for the Major Leagues about 4 years ahead of time.

This will slightly increase the average talent level at every position and will lead to a bunch of high quality (35+ potential/80) free agents. In order to counteract that, I've created an independent league with a reputation of 10 and enough finances such that the super stars make about 10 million dollars. This allows many of those 35-40 out of 80 potential players to get picked up by somebody. I also force the indy league to start May 1st to give it time to pick up those later free agents. I don't allow a draft or any kind of player creation for the indy league.

This is what I'll do:

Draft Day Year 5 (For me this is June 5, 2023)
Contact: 1.183
Gap: 1.160
Power: 1.135
Eye: 0.989
Avoid K: 1.130
Stuff: 1.107
Movement: 1.188
Control: 1.145
Stamina: 1.093
Speed: 1.544
Defense: 1.050

Draft Day Year 15
Contact: 1.217
Gap: 1.217
Power: 1.217
Eye: 0.964
Avoid K: 1.188
Stuff: 1.202
Movement: 1.294
Control: 1.198
Stamina: 1.095
Speed: 1.640
Defense: 1.061

Draft Day Year 25
Contact: 1.325
Gap: 1.375
Power: 1.310
Eye: 0.970
Avoid K: 1.278
Stuff: 1.289
Movement: 1.448
Control: 1.283
Stamina: 1.072
Speed: 1.529
Defense: 1.043

The year 25 values will hold for a full 20 years.

Draft Day Year 45
Contact: 1.419
Gap: 1.436
Power: 1.331
Eye: 0.951
Avoid K: 1.354
Stuff: 1.354
Movement: 1.472
Control: 1.303
Stamina: 1.042
Speed: 1.563
Defense: 1.043

These are the final PCM which are stable enough at least through year 70, but I haven't tested much beyond that. In my tests those final modifiers are just a bit too strong so I imagine they will be plenty good for quite some time.

Lawn Loaf · 06-15-2018, 12:00 PM

Quick question: What happens to the HS players that max the age level and are not drafted by a team? Do they get put into the FA pool?
How long do you have to put them manually onto a college team?
I was thinking of having the college feeder age creation set at 18 so I can go through the teams and delete those guys and manually sign the hs FA guys to college teams.
I have yet to advance my league so I have not had any experience with trying to implement this.

stealofhome · 06-15-2018, 01:13 PM

Just tried this once - 635 eligible high school players for the 6/5/2038 draft, born 7/6/18-6/5/20. Simmed past the draft pick signing deadline (7/5/38)

461 drafted, placed by AI between R, A-, A

411 - R
37 - A-
13 - A

115 players drafted and didn't sign

87 - returned to HS (birth date 7/20/19 - 6/3/20)
24 - went to COL (birth date 7/10/18 - 7/1/19)
4 - end up in no man's land (birth date 7/2/19, 7/3/19, 7/4/19)

59 players went undrafted

58 - went to COL (6/7/19 - 5/27/20)
1 - no man's land (birth date 5/13/19)

I then simmed ahead to the start of the next year HS/COL season (4/1/39).
5 no man's land - stayed in no man's land (not in HS/COL, not in FA pool)
82 COL all still in COL
15/87 HS still in HS (birth date 4/6/20 - 6/3/20)
72/87 HS stuck in limbo, sit out the year (junior college?) (birth date 7/20/19 - 3/30/20)

So the HS players who were eligible 6/5/38, were drafted, didn't sign, and were still eligible for HS in year 1 but aged out in the offseason got stuck in limbo for one feeder league season.

Then I simmed past the draft pick signing deadline for the second year (7/5/39)

Out of those 72, 1 gets stuck back in limbo - "went to college" but not on a team, 17 went to COL, 54 were drafted and signed.

Looks like the dates eligible for the draft are based on the draft day and the dates that determine where you go if you are undrafted and don't sign are based on the signing deadline. Then your eligibility the next year is based on the start date of the league. I have my HS eligibility set for max age reached (18), could maybe tweak those so that all eligible HS players who don't sign go to COL instead of back to HS. That may be as simple as changing it to max age surpassed which many people do.

None of the HS players end up in the FA pool, but the COL players who age out do if they go undrafted.

Lawn Loaf · 06-15-2018, 10:38 PM

So as I understand this, no HS feeder league guy who goes undrafted gets put in the FA Pool? So they just disappear?
If that's the case then may have to build a league built on NCAA being an independent league that feeds to MLB. All the HS can be the feeders for the NCAA independent, but than that would kill all options of HS guys being drafted by MLB. Or am I missing something?

stealofhome · 06-15-2018, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

So as I understand this, no HS feeder league guy who goes undrafted gets put in the FA Pool? So they just disappear?
If that's the case then may have to build a league built on NCAA being an independent league that feeds to MLB. All the HS can be the feeders for the NCAA independent, but than that would kill all options of HS guys being drafted by MLB. Or am I missing something?

They don't disappear, they either go to college, play another year of high school, or sit in limbo (you could call this junior college, just no stats appear) until the next year's draft.

Lawn Loaf · 06-16-2018, 12:23 AM

So my question is are they available to manually place on College teams from the FA list? Are they unavailable in this "limbo" you describe?

stealofhome · 06-16-2018, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

So my question is are they available to manually place on College teams from the FA list? Are they unavailable in this "limbo" you describe?

Oh yes, you can edit them if you'd like. They're perfectly normal in the game, just not on a team.

Lawn Loaf · 06-16-2018, 01:39 AM

Based on your answer I can find them in the FA list based on age filters?
Every HS guy?
So if you have 3500 HS feeder teams, every guy that wasn't included in the draft class are available for editing/signing?
And if so where would I find them in the game?
I know this is some technical OOTP ****e, but I am grateful for your explanation!

Lawn Loaf · 06-16-2018, 01:44 AM

By the way, we should figure out a way to consolidate our efforts on the HS feeder league jersey's and caps, between us both I think we can knock out a sheetload to better enhance the game.

itsmb8 · 06-16-2018, 02:20 AM

Would it be possible to schedule a free agent draft for the college teams to pick up the remaining players in limbo?

stealofhome · 06-16-2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

Based on your answer I can find them in the FA list based on age filters?
Every HS guy?
So if you have 3500 HS feeder teams, every guy that wasn't included in the draft class are available for editing/signing?
And if so where would I find them in the game?
I know this is some technical OOTP ****e, but I am grateful for your explanation!

The only place I've seen is in each league's list all players screen. They show up with a dash for level and team. Might be able to export the players, edit, and reimport but I don't know anything about that. I also haven't tried scheduling drafts for college, don't know if that works since they are college level not independent leagues in my game.

HerbD · 06-16-2018, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawn Loaf

Based on your answer I can find them in the FA list based on age filters?
Every HS guy?
So if you have 3500 HS feeder teams, every guy that wasn't included in the draft class are available for editing/signing?
And if so where would I find them in the game?
I know this is some technical OOTP ****e, but I am grateful for your explanation!

This is what I do with my HS players that go undrafted

stealofhome · 06-16-2018, 11:41 AM

Just tried this again, but used max age surpassed instead of max age reached- 560 eligible high school players for the 6/5/2044 draft, born 6/6/24-6/5/25. Simmed past the draft pick signing deadline (7/5/44)

403 drafted, placed by AI between R, A-, A

372 - R
22 - A-
9 - A

86 players drafted and didn't sign

86 - went to COL (birth date 6/19/24 - 6/5/25)

71 players went undrafted

2 - went to COL (6/2/25, 6/4/25)
69 - no man's land (birth date 6/11/24 - 5/27/25)

All of the players in this iteration who ended up in no man's land were 20 potential players and I think only ended there because I have strict roster limits for college teams. I imagine if there's room and if you use max age surpassed for high school, the players will all automatically go to college.

Orcin · 06-16-2018, 12:50 PM

This is a tremendous thread and excellent work! Thank you so much for sharing it.

I have been complaining about draft quality since it was changed several years ago. I stopped because I tired of being told that it was working as intended and was not intended to be fun. It was designed to avoid a steady increase in talent levels in the league.

So my question... in your tests with elevated PCMs, have you noticed a general increase in statistical performance? Records being broken frequently? Or does the overall statistical performance seem to remain the same despite the improved draft classes?

stealofhome · 06-16-2018, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcin

So my question... in your tests with elevated PCMs, have you noticed a general increase in statistical performance? Records being broken frequently? Or does the overall statistical performance seem to remain the same despite the improved draft classes?

I do have the auto adjust league totals checkbox selected, so the league totals are pretty stable. The one league I'm looking at now does have hitting records mostly in the beginning (2018) and then pitching records mostly toward the end (2070). I did notice that the pitching quality was a tiny bit higher through the drafts than the hitting.

I'd say it's more about balancing the hitting/pitching talent than having too much league talent.

Bristolduke · 06-16-2018, 05:35 PM

Great work.

To answer an earlier Q you can set up a draft event. But you have to manually do the draft outside the game as you can't draft into a college feeder. But you can import a draft result file that will be applied to the college feeder. So you export the list you want apply the draft and import the draft results file. I do this so I can keep the power conferences still being the power as opposed to St. Francis (PA) being NCAA champ (no offense to St Francis alums/students)

torpidbeaver · 06-16-2018, 05:53 PM

Just to be clear, this is for both with and without feeder systems, right? If those of us who are playing sans feeder leagues want decent draft classes going forward past the first year or two, we should adjust the PCMs to your numbers, correct?

stealofhome · 06-16-2018, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torpidbeaver

Just to be clear, this is for both with and without feeder systems, right? If those of us who are playing sans feeder leagues want decent draft classes going forward past the first year or two, we should adjust the PCMs to your numbers, correct?

The numbers are a little aggressive for those without feeder leagues. The best values I've got for those are just at year 10 and are about 90% of the feeder league PCMs but with some changes. I haven't tested these as much.

Contact: 1.074
Gap: 1.075
Power: 1.089
Eye: 0.994
Avoid K: 1.037
Stuff: 1.088
Movement: 1.127
Control: 1.088
Stamina: 0.968
Speed: 0.994
Defense: 1.187

06-16-2018, 05:35 PM	#78
Bristolduke All Star Starter Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,404	Great work. To answer an earlier Q you can set up a draft event. But you have to manually do the draft outside the game as you can't draft into a college feeder. But you can import a draft result file that will be applied to the college feeder. So you export the list you want apply the draft and import the draft results file. I do this so I can keep the power conferences still being the power as opposed to St. Francis (PA) being NCAA champ (no offense to St Francis alums/students) __________________ Commish of the Home Nations Baseball Association Commish of the Baseball Association League Commish of the League of WAR Commish of the On-Line Dynasty League SIMBL2 - Westbury Cannons Great Lakes Baseball - Toledo Neptunes World Baseball - Guantanamo Marines OMLB - Cincinnati Reds

06-12-2018, 10:15 PM	#63
stealofhome Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,282 Blog Entries: 1	Okay this is what I've been having pretty good success with - enough success that I feel comfortable sticking with it. Since my HS/College feeder leagues force the players to be created at the league minimum age, I have to change the PCM values for the Major Leagues about 4 years ahead of time. This will slightly increase the average talent level at every position and will lead to a bunch of high quality (35+ potential/80) free agents. In order to counteract that, I've created an independent league with a reputation of 10 and enough finances such that the super stars make about 10 million dollars. This allows many of those 35-40 out of 80 potential players to get picked up by somebody. I also force the indy league to start May 1st to give it time to pick up those later free agents. I don't allow a draft or any kind of player creation for the indy league. This is what I'll do: Draft Day Year 5 (For me this is June 5, 2023) Contact: 1.183 Gap: 1.160 Power: 1.135 Eye: 0.989 Avoid K: 1.130 Stuff: 1.107 Movement: 1.188 Control: 1.145 Stamina: 1.093 Speed: 1.544 Defense: 1.050 Draft Day Year 15 Contact: 1.217 Gap: 1.217 Power: 1.217 Eye: 0.964 Avoid K: 1.188 Stuff: 1.202 Movement: 1.294 Control: 1.198 Stamina: 1.095 Speed: 1.640 Defense: 1.061 Draft Day Year 25 Contact: 1.325 Gap: 1.375 Power: 1.310 Eye: 0.970 Avoid K: 1.278 Stuff: 1.289 Movement: 1.448 Control: 1.283 Stamina: 1.072 Speed: 1.529 Defense: 1.043 The year 25 values will hold for a full 20 years. Draft Day Year 45 Contact: 1.419 Gap: 1.436 Power: 1.331 Eye: 0.951 Avoid K: 1.354 Stuff: 1.354 Movement: 1.472 Control: 1.303 Stamina: 1.042 Speed: 1.563 Defense: 1.043 These are the final PCM which are stable enough at least through year 70, but I haven't tested much beyond that. In my tests those final modifiers are just a bit too strong so I imagine they will be plenty good for quite some time.

06-15-2018, 12:00 PM	#64
Lawn Loaf Banned Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: God's Country Posts: 2,118 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	Quick question: What happens to the HS players that max the age level and are not drafted by a team? Do they get put into the FA pool? How long do you have to put them manually onto a college team? I was thinking of having the college feeder age creation set at 18 so I can go through the teams and delete those guys and manually sign the hs FA guys to college teams. I have yet to advance my league so I have not had any experience with trying to implement this.

06-15-2018, 01:13 PM	#65
stealofhome Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,282 Blog Entries: 1	Just tried this once - 635 eligible high school players for the 6/5/2038 draft, born 7/6/18-6/5/20. Simmed past the draft pick signing deadline (7/5/38) 461 drafted, placed by AI between R, A-, A 411 - R 37 - A- 13 - A 115 players drafted and didn't sign 87 - returned to HS (birth date 7/20/19 - 6/3/20) 24 - went to COL (birth date 7/10/18 - 7/1/19) 4 - end up in no man's land (birth date 7/2/19, 7/3/19, 7/4/19) 59 players went undrafted 58 - went to COL (6/7/19 - 5/27/20) 1 - no man's land (birth date 5/13/19) I then simmed ahead to the start of the next year HS/COL season (4/1/39). 5 no man's land - stayed in no man's land (not in HS/COL, not in FA pool) 82 COL all still in COL 15/87 HS still in HS (birth date 4/6/20 - 6/3/20) 72/87 HS stuck in limbo, sit out the year (junior college?) (birth date 7/20/19 - 3/30/20) So the HS players who were eligible 6/5/38, were drafted, didn't sign, and were still eligible for HS in year 1 but aged out in the offseason got stuck in limbo for one feeder league season. Then I simmed past the draft pick signing deadline for the second year (7/5/39) Out of those 72, 1 gets stuck back in limbo - "went to college" but not on a team, 17 went to COL, 54 were drafted and signed. Looks like the dates eligible for the draft are based on the draft day and the dates that determine where you go if you are undrafted and don't sign are based on the signing deadline. Then your eligibility the next year is based on the start date of the league. I have my HS eligibility set for max age reached (18), could maybe tweak those so that all eligible HS players who don't sign go to COL instead of back to HS. That may be as simple as changing it to max age surpassed which many people do. None of the HS players end up in the FA pool, but the COL players who age out do if they go undrafted.

06-15-2018, 10:38 PM	#66
Lawn Loaf Banned Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: God's Country Posts: 2,118 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	So as I understand this, no HS feeder league guy who goes undrafted gets put in the FA Pool? So they just disappear? If that's the case then may have to build a league built on NCAA being an independent league that feeds to MLB. All the HS can be the feeders for the NCAA independent, but than that would kill all options of HS guys being drafted by MLB. Or am I missing something?

06-16-2018, 12:23 AM	#68
Lawn Loaf Banned Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: God's Country Posts: 2,118 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	So my question is are they available to manually place on College teams from the FA list? Are they unavailable in this "limbo" you describe?

06-16-2018, 01:39 AM	#70
Lawn Loaf Banned Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: God's Country Posts: 2,118 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	Based on your answer I can find them in the FA list based on age filters? Every HS guy? So if you have 3500 HS feeder teams, every guy that wasn't included in the draft class are available for editing/signing? And if so where would I find them in the game? I know this is some technical OOTP ****e, but I am grateful for your explanation!

06-16-2018, 01:44 AM	#71
Lawn Loaf Banned Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: God's Country Posts: 2,118 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	By the way, we should figure out a way to consolidate our efforts on the HS feeder league jersey's and caps, between us both I think we can knock out a sheetload to better enhance the game.

06-16-2018, 02:20 AM	#72
itsmb8 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1,322	Would it be possible to schedule a free agent draft for the college teams to pick up the remaining players in limbo?

06-16-2018, 11:41 AM	#75
stealofhome Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,282 Blog Entries: 1	Just tried this again, but used max age surpassed instead of max age reached- 560 eligible high school players for the 6/5/2044 draft, born 6/6/24-6/5/25. Simmed past the draft pick signing deadline (7/5/44) 403 drafted, placed by AI between R, A-, A 372 - R 22 - A- 9 - A 86 players drafted and didn't sign 86 - went to COL (birth date 6/19/24 - 6/5/25) 71 players went undrafted 2 - went to COL (6/2/25, 6/4/25) 69 - no man's land (birth date 6/11/24 - 5/27/25) All of the players in this iteration who ended up in no man's land were 20 potential players and I think only ended there because I have strict roster limits for college teams. I imagine if there's room and if you use max age surpassed for high school, the players will all automatically go to college.

06-16-2018, 12:50 PM	#76
Orcin Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Indiana Posts: 9,798	This is a tremendous thread and excellent work! Thank you so much for sharing it. I have been complaining about draft quality since it was changed several years ago. I stopped because I tired of being told that it was working as intended and was not intended to be fun. It was designed to avoid a steady increase in talent levels in the league. So my question... in your tests with elevated PCMs, have you noticed a general increase in statistical performance? Records being broken frequently? Or does the overall statistical performance seem to remain the same despite the improved draft classes?

06-16-2018, 05:53 PM	#79
torpidbeaver Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 385 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Just to be clear, this is for both with and without feeder systems, right? If those of us who are playing sans feeder leagues want decent draft classes going forward past the first year or two, we should adjust the PCMs to your numbers, correct?