Astro's Punishment

[thehef]

If the reason immunity was given was to get the players' cooperation, then Manfred should've gone with: "Give me honest testimony and any suspensions will not exceed a year. However, for those who don't cooperate, longer suspensions - including those for life - will be considered."

Same basic strategy. But no, Manfred simply did not want to do battle with the union. His mistake was thinking that by not engaging the union in a protracted battle, he would be hastening the timeline that this simply goes away. But in reality, by a) not punishing the players, and then, to a lesser degree, b) not seeing to it that Crane and the BlackStros' statements and apologies were comprehensive and sincere - instead of the making-matters-worse sh*t-show that it was - he merely traded one scandal-lengthening timeline for another.

Of course, any strategy that Manfred pursued would've needed the backing of the majority of owners, and who knows if other strategies would've garnered that backing. But I wonder what the union's response would've been if Manfred would've come at them from the outset with a strong, aggressive, and resolute mindset.

As Cobra Mgr indicated, "No one can tell me MLB w/its billions of revenue couldn't hire someone to investigate things and find out what's what. They gave immunity because they were too lazy and cheap." The MLB didn't need the players' cooperation. Clearly, Manfred could've pursued a strategy that involved punishing the players and getting the cooperation of at least some of them. He chose not to. I guess time will tell if he regrets that. I can't imagine he's at all happy with how things have played out so far.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by dkgo

They deserve to start taking fastballs to the head.

No they don't.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by thehef

If the reason immunity was given was to get the players' cooperation, then Manfred should've gone with: "Give me honest testimony and any suspensions will not exceed a year. However, for those who don't cooperate, longer suspensions - including those for life - will be considered."

That would have gone over well with the union. "We know that people have been caught doing this before and didn't receive any punishment, but we're going to suspend some players for life over this because sports journalists keep becoming bigger and bigger self-righteous blowhards".

[low]

Since referring to the WS trophy as "a piece of metal", I am certain that Manfred either #1 just hates baseball and doesn't give a crap, or #2 he is somehow involved in the scandal.

[dkgo]

And he got mad at the reporter for releasing the codebreaker story.

Manfred must have done his interview prep with the same person as crane.

[AnotherAlias]

LMAO.

If you cheat, expect to get slammed. Maybe think twice next time.

[ezpkns34]

Originally Posted by low

Since referring to the WS trophy as "a piece of metal", I am certain that Manfred either #1 just hates baseball and doesn't give a crap, or #2 he is somehow involved in the scandal.

OR? Could always be both

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Westheim

No they don't.

Not the head, but everywhere else would be fine with me. If you leave the players unsanctioned, you open up the can of worms that is the frontier justice that results from these things. By doing so, Manfred may cause grave injuries to one or more of these guys, and nobody wants that. That will be partly on him.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by campinginalaska

Also because if you're going to enforce the worst sanctions to ever hit a team in MLB history you're going to want more than "oh yeah we have some spreadsheet and some trash can sounds", players testifying is the best thing you can get.

In 2017, the MLB caught the Yankees and Red Sox' sign-stealing, they weren't able to do much, players didn't want to come out and say they were (obviously) so "oh yeah lets just fine them."

Since when in the history of civilization has the justice system needed to hear the guilty confess in order to exact punishment? 99% of the people in jail never admitted to doing it. Evidence convicts them, not confession.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Manfraud claims you cant blame the players because the GM didnt share the memo telling them not to cheat.

Seriously? You mean I knew, you knew, everyone on this forum knew, but the Astros were unaware? He actually said that?

[Cobra Mgr]

What Manfred did was let Pablo Escobar go because he told them who were the cops he had on his payroll.

[dkgo]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Seriously? You mean I knew, you knew, everyone on this forum knew, but the Astros were unaware? He actually said that?

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ishment-astros

Manfred told Ravech that any discipline of the players likely would have resulted in grievances from the Major League Baseball Players Association, citing Luhnow's failure to communicate to the Astros' players the contents of a 2017 memorandum outlining MLB's policy on the use of technology.

"Well, they just didn't do it. It's in my report. The memorandum went to the general manager, and then nothing was done from the GM down," Manfred said. "So we knew if we had disciplined the players in all likelihood we were going to have grievances and grievances that we were going to lose on the basis that we never properly informed them of the rules. Given those two things, No. 1, I knew where, or I'm certain where the responsibilities should lay in the first instance and given the fact we didn't think we could make discipline stick with the players, we made the decision we made.

"Having said that, I understand the reaction. The players, some of them in a more articulate way than others, have said, admitted they did the wrong thing. And I understand that people want to see them punished for that, and in a perfect world, they would have been punished."

Manfred said that although it doesn't absolve the Astros' players, he believes that Luhnow and Hinch were obligated to inform them of the memo and enforce MLB's rules.

Yes this guy actually said that with a straight face.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by dkgo

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ishment-astros



Yes this guy actually said that with a straight face.

[Brad K]

The union is obligated to defend the players. But a defense does not mean the union would take the position of no punishment for the guilty. Yet the defense of Manfred assumes that the union WOULD ask for no punishment of the guilty. Part of the idea that half of what is wrong in the US is due to unions.

[dkgo]

Its so spineless. Even if you did genuinely think you would lose a grievance, that means you shouldnt even try to do the right thing?

[ezpkns34]

If the MLBPA's purpose is to look after the interest of the players, wouldn't that also mean for the players who don't cheat? The entire reason the threat of throwing at players exists is because so many other players are upset by it

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Since when in the history of civilization has the justice system needed to hear the guilty confess in order to exact punishment? 99% of the people in jail never admitted to doing it. Evidence convicts them, not confession.

Yea, but the accusers feel so much better about it with a confession. That's why Christians tortured witches and Jews and Muslims who they were going to execute anyway.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by ezpkns34

If the MLBPA's purpose is to look after the interest of the players, wouldn't that also mean for the players who don't cheat? The entire reason the threat of throwing at players exists is because so many other players are upset by it

Does the players union have the right to punish players?

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by dkgo

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...ishment-astros



Yes this guy actually said that with a straight face.

Currently watching myself through the back catalogue of Last Week Tonight, and just this weekend watched the NCAA episode where players had to sign that they had read their 200-odd page rulebook and would abide by everything in it.

Would that be so hard to put into the next CBA?

Edit: Also, would it be so hard to send Numbfred into some sort of asylum where he can live out his days in peace without having to come up with this sort of nonsense?

[ezpkns34]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Does the players union have the right to punish players?

Wasn't saying they would punish the players, just that if their job is to protect the interest of the players that they'd seemingly be doing that more so by not fighting back, based on what many players seem to be saying at least (just the ones speaking out publicly)