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Old 02-10-2020, 04:41 PM   #1
Pine Tar
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SP and RP - What defines them

I know Stamina is different for starting pitching and relief pitching. RPs would not last many innings as a starter, What makes a RP better at relief pitching than a starter. Would they normally have a higher combination of STU and MOV?

When you replace a starter do you move that starter to the relief role? I know I do that a lot of the time as it is hard to find good RP/CL to fill the 7 spots in the bullpen.

Any tips on managing the bullpen would be appreciated.

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Old 02-10-2020, 06:45 PM   #2
chazzycat
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You pretty much never want RP in the SP role, so don't worry about that.

But on the flip side, it's generally a very strong strategy to use SP in relief. And there are 2 solid reasons for that:

1) SP just have more stamina so they can pitch significantly more innings over the course of a season than an RP with an identical role. If you set an SP to "stopper" for example they may pitch 130+ innings, whereas a stopper RP probably won't top 100. This is good strategy because the value of a roster spot is quite significant. By using more starters, you need less arms in general, so you can add more bench bats to get more platoon advantages.

2) Starters and relievers get their "stuff" calculated differently, from the individual pitch ratings. For relievers, basically only the top individual 2 pitches matter. So a starter with two very good pitches (fastball/slider for example) will see a large "stuff bump" upon conversion to relief. A pitcher with five or six mediocre pitches would see a much smaller bump, or not any bump at all.

So yeah, both of these are good reasons to convert SP to RP. I would say shoot for eight starters MINIMUM. That gives you a full rotation, two stoppers (one righty/one lefty) and one long relief arm for blowout duty.

Your top 4 arms would be starters 1-4, your 3rd best RHP and 3rd best LHP would righty/lefty stoppers, your 7th best SP would be your SP5, and 8th best as long man.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:59 PM   #3
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Many starting pitchers staminas are 18-20...that is fine. For a starter or reliever.

But sometimes I have found that 11 is fine as well even though that sounds quite a bit smaller.

And the very popular 4 (average RP)? Is not as big a drop-off as it sounds if you want to give it a try in SP role for some reason or another...the AI handles it pretty intelligently if you do your part & I've had relievers go 6 innings, mediocre ones at that with quality starts at PL (OK sample 4 starts but every time, 4-for-4). ...So Not often, because I'm shooting for complete games most of the time & because I still haven't decided whether they (the RPs) always have the potential to do fine for 5, 6 innings in a starting role or if it's a roll of the dice.

But what chazzycat said about SPs in the pen is trueee...usually if a guy is struggling in your starting rotation but not so bad you can put him in the bullpen!

The 18-20, 11, & 4 are references to ratings on a scale of 1-20 that I have for some reason.
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Old 02-12-2020, 01:35 PM   #4
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All pitchers are going to be better at relieving than starting. Even pitchers with high stamina. However, the pitchers where you will see the largest difference would be those that have 2 very high quality pitches. Relief pitchers basically concentrate on using their 2 best pitches.
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:22 PM   #5
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that's not 100% accurate...there are some rare SP who will get a negative "stuff bump".
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:57 PM   #6
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I have never seen that, but the only way I could see it as being possible is if their starter stuff rating has been given a lot of bumps for extra pitches (i.e. they probably 6 or 7 pitches) and likely they do not have 2 of those pitches that are "plus".
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Old 02-12-2020, 04:09 PM   #7
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I have never seen that, but the only way I could see it as being possible is if their starter stuff rating has been given a lot of bumps for extra pitches (i.e. they probably 6 or 7 pitches) and likely they do not have 2 of those pitches that are "plus".
Have a look at Ubaldo Jimenez
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Old 02-12-2020, 08:04 PM   #8
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Lots of good information here. Thank you all for the advice and hopefully it will add up to more wins. Some of this I knew but there others parts were kust a bit of an eye opener. This game gives us lots of information and numbers we just have to know how to use them in a way that makes sense.

Sometimes it hard to tell if your pitching is bad because your defense sucks or is your pitching that really sucks. When to focus on defense or offense with a player. Then you see your 82 live player out perform your 95 POTM player. You just want to bang your head against a wall since it hurts less...lol

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Old 02-12-2020, 08:19 PM   #9
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Sometimes it hard to tell if your pitching is bad because your defense sucks or is your pitching that really sucks.
Pine Tar
Have a look at FIP for pitchers, since it's defense-independent, it will give you the answer : who sucks on my squad ?
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Old 02-13-2020, 11:54 AM   #10
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The only thing FIP kind of leaves out is balls that were un-fieldable, e.g. a pitcher's pitches being smacked all over the park at high velocities except over the wall...that even Ozzie Smith & Andruw Jones don't glove...

But in my experience all in all, the defensive ratings are important. Just slightly tricky since there are pitchers that barely need a defense from time to time. & there are pitchers who would give up 1,2,3 runs with a stellar defense that might get hammered with no defense behind them...

It's sort of like figuring out the offensive statistics...The players have enough different attributes that sometimes all you can do is put out the best team possible within your means & watch baseball play out like baseball.

But then again, the people playing OOTP have even more varying attributes, so I'm not sure I know what to say to you not knowing YOUR tendencies.

Except have fun fielding your perfect team for the season, the playoffs or each game.
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:10 PM   #11
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FIP is probably the most useful stat in the entire game. FIP is based on just 3 factors: strikeouts, homers, and walks. The same very three things that correspond to the main pitchers ratings. So it's a perfect fit.

If your ERA is consistently worse (higher) than FIP, that would be a sign of two possible things going wrong:

1) your defense is bad. To know if that's the culprit, look at ZR. Zero is league average and +1 ZR means your defense saved 1 run more than average, so it's a very straightforward stat to understand. Elite defensive teams will be +50 or more by the end of the season.

2) Park factors. Most importantly, the AVG modifiers can really affect this. If you play in a 1.1 AVG park, that means your pitchers are basically facing a 5% BABIP penalty, so ERA is destined to be worse than FIP. It takes an elite defense to overcome that. On the flip side, it's quite easy to beat FIP with .9 AVG factors - a just average defense is enough to consistently beat it. Of course, that would need to be paired with the appropriate offensive strategy, or you're just giving back whatever gains on offense.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:22 AM   #12
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I didn't see it mentioned here, but I believe it is accurate to state that setting a pitcher's role to SP or RP only changes the visualization of their stuff rating. So even if you put a starter in the bullpen, they will enter games with a Stuff rating reflective of their relief role, even if they still display as SP.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:52 AM   #13
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Then you see your 82 live player out perform your 95 POTM player. You just want to bang your head against a wall since it hurts less...lol

Pine Tar
Some of the worst pitchers in this game are high diamonds who get outpitched regularly by midrange golds.

As many a fresh-faced youngster just up from diamond for the first time discovers to his dismay.

I like this kind of thread, information freely shared rather than zealously guarded.

My nugget of wisdom for teams headed toward PeL for the first time:

Defense matters very much indeed, because your pitching is likely to be very weak (by PeL standards). Build solid D before you leave Diamond, or expect to boomerang.
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