Version 1.6.19 Game Update Now Available (Updated from 1.6.17)

[Mordrehl]

Originally Posted by Penfold75

We have had an update. The update might not be exactly what everyone wanted to hear but at least we know the game is still being worked on. In light of Sebastian's post I think it would be best to just give them space and some time to work on the game and not pile on any pressure. Let's see what they deliver i.e. the patch or FHM 2015 as the team are obviously still committed to releasing either of the two.

I'm sorry but his personal life/issues does not engender any empathy on my part in regards to FHM. OOTP is a company, and as such it's their responsibility to ensure development continues at the expected pace. If that has not happened, then it's up to OOTP to invest the resources needed to make it happen. Whether that's replacing Sebastien or hiring more coders is irrelevent.

Sebastien's post and the one post by BradC that says "this will affect my pay/bankaccount" ... seem entirely crafted to generate sympathy towards them and their plight. They seem to me to be a smoke screen to deflect attention that it's been more than 6 months since they said we would get a new match engine. And that FHM14 development has slowed to all but a crawl. I wouldn't be surprised if they release FHM15 and never patch FHM14 again.

If that happens, I will never buy or recommend an OOTP product again. I've already been patient enough with FHM14 as it is.

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by Mordrehl

I'm sorry but his personal life/issues does not engender any empathy on my part in regards to FHM. OOTP is a company, and as such it's their responsibility to ensure development continues at the expected pace. If that has not happened, then it's up to OOTP to invest the resources needed to make it happen. Whether that's replacing Sebastien or hiring more coders is irrelevent.

Sebastien's post and the one post by BradC that says "this will affect my pay/bankaccount" ... seem entirely crafted to generate sympathy towards them and their plight. They seem to me to be a smoke screen to deflect attention that it's been more than 6 months since they said we would get a new match engine. And that FHM14 development has slowed to all but a crawl. I wouldn't be surprised if they release FHM15 and never patch FHM14 again.

If that happens, I will never buy or recommend an OOTP product again. I've already been patient enough with FHM14 as it is.

We all relate to your frustration to various levels of degrees. In fact, that's what lead to the "Bank Account" statements I'd say which was a mistake in them posting - that is why they deleted it.

But FHM is a small project developed by a small team that is dependent on a particular programmer. People go through tough times in life and we are witnessing that now. OOTP has a great culture to allow their staff to work out their own issues in particular cases it appears. No doubt that will cause backlash and loss of sales and perhaps customers such as yourself but they believe in them in the end and have full confidence from what I can see. I admire OOTPs culture and think more companies in the world would be a better place to work if they handled situations similarly with their staff, but you are right, this is typically not a regular thing.

There are more important things than work at times in peoples life. I am truly sorry if this means that you are no longer interested in the game, but so be it. It is certainly your right to move on and none of us will argue with you.

[AaronV]

I must say that im a lead designer for a small wargame company and i have a full time job on top of that. There is about 6 of us working on different games in our spare time which leads to some games coming out in a year and others taking 3 years so i understand the issues that are happening with the developers because i myself sometimes go a month without even booting the game up but even before i started there was a policy of not announcing any releases which works out well considering you never no what will happen in your personal life, i remember one issue of an above ground pool busting in someones backyard and flooding his basement with all his research, put the game back 1 year. Point is you never know whats gonna happen when your a small team and they could implement what we do with no info then you wouldnt be able to get mad over delays because you wouldnt no about them but then you would complain that you have 0 information till about a day before release.

Youve got to be patient.

In the end if you dont like it you have the choice to not buy the next version and quit this forum and wait 6-8 years for another company to give it a shot. Its a game not the end of the world, play something else for a few months.

[dsthom]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

Only thing that worries me about all of this is what happened with iOOTP last time around. There was a promise of updates for the community that never happened. Then, there was a promise of a patch followed by a long period of silence.. And then no patch with the franchise moving on to the next year. Yes, it's a different product but its the same lead developer.

That's called hitting the nail on the head.

[dsthom]

Originally Posted by AaronV

In the end if you dont like it you have the choice to not buy the next version....

You bet I do, and not buy any other OOTP products (as have have done many times over the past decade), at least until there is a change of personnel that demonstrates the capability to meet stated design goals and promised deadlines.

[dsthom]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Removed my original post, in retrospect it isn't going to make the situation any better, even though I know communication has been sorely lacking lately and the deletion itself will, justifiably, annoy some of you. I'm going to have a talk with Markus tomorrow and we'll try to clarify things a bit for everyone. But to repeat, neither the patch nor the next version is in danger of being cancelled.

I don't mean this as a personal insult, but I'm sorry Jeff -- your promises don't have much credibility with me.

[dsthom]

Originally Posted by dave1927p

It is certainly your right to move on and none of us will argue with you.

Move on with my pocketbook a bit lighter, you mean. That's the issue. I'll move on when I receive the game I was promised (in the pre-beta spec sheet) or a full refund.

[AlpineSK]

I, for one, will never be the person who says he will never buy another OOTP game because I fully support the work Markus et. all do on the baseball game, and have faithfully for roughly the last 12 years.

As for the football game, I'll wait a bit to buy it and read some reviews since it is a "first generation" game much like FHM14 is.

As for the current situation, while I am sorry that Sebastian is having a tough time, I have zero sympathy from the professional side of things. Two years ago, my whole life was turned upside down as well to the point where I wasn't sleeping, was extremely depressed, and was not handling anything that I was experiencing in a healthy manner. The people that I worked with, and the people that were my customers (or rather patients) might have had sympathy for me from a personal stand point, but professionally, as long as I was on the clock and in a capacity where I was expected to perform the duties of my job, I had to perform without question.

My point is yes, there are things that are far more important than your job. I left my last job because it was getting to the point of being unhealthy for me. That was a choice that I made. It was what I chose to do. But as long as the choice that a person makes is to stay at their job, then I will expect them to perform regardless of what is going on in their personal life.

That does not mean that I do not have sympathy for them and does not mean I would not show it. It does not mean that I would not ask them how they were doing, or offer them advice or help if that happened to ask me for it. But I would still expect their job to be done. If I was the boss, and there were financial ramifications that my company was enduring because of someone's lack of performance, well, there would be some tough discussions to be had, and potentially some tough decisions for people to make depending on its outcome.

I am not questioning OOTP's business practices. They have done pretty well and are without a doubt worth more financially than I am. This is just my $0.03.

[Penfold75]

I love the fact the FHM produces and inspires great passion, opinion and discussion. It demonstrates how important the game is to people and what it means to them.

However, it is just that a game. Yes OOTP are a business and they are professionals and they are looking to make money out of the game. I am disappointed though at the lack of compassion, empathy or sympathy being shown towards someone who has worked very hard on this game so far. The game may not be where everyone wants it to be but you can see the hard work that has gone into it over the last couple of years. The game has after all been created from scratch.

We as humans are not robots and things that effect our personal lives do have an effect on how we can do our jobs at times. I don't know if I have been lucky with the companies I have worked for or the manager's I have had, but when I have been struggling with issues I have always been allowed the time and space to do my job without additional pressure. The companies I have worked for have users that need the systems we develop and not having those systems in place cost these companies money.

I want the game to be the best it can be but I will not condone or support people who want to heap pressure on to someone who may have some personal issues going on in the background and at the same time is still working hard to deliver the product we all want. If you can't find it somewhere in yourself to support the team at this time and think a game is more important than someone's happiness or well being then you should be ashamed of yourself.

[AlpineSK]

And maybe I am being a bit insensitive but there just always seems to be another excuse. . . Its not like I have time to play the game right now anyway but I just shake my head at this point.

[gollum65]

All of this complaining, criticizing, and wringing of hands will only serve to discourage the developers. So I just want to say to them thanks for your hard work and we look forward to the next release! You DO have a loyal fan base here, much as some don't seem to appreciate your work some days.

[Rich Tiger Fan]

Originally Posted by gollum65

All of this complaining, criticizing, and wringing of hands will only serve to discourage the developers. So I just want to say to them thanks for your hard work and we look forward to the next release! You DO have a loyal fan base here, much as some don't seem to appreciate your work some days.

I think there are still many that do appreciate the hard work. Even the ones who are very vocal here at times. With that said you have to wonder how long we would have went on with no word on what was going on had the "Complainers" not started to speak out again, especially after the very patient, in my opinion, month that went by beforehand since the last update in July.

Also for what it's worth I agree that it is time to lay off for a while and let them sort this out.

[archibalduk]

Originally Posted by Penfold75

I love the fact the FHM produces and inspires great passion, opinion and discussion. It demonstrates how important the game is to people and what it means to them.

However, it is just that a game. Yes OOTP are a business and they are professionals and they are looking to make money out of the game. I am disappointed though at the lack of compassion, empathy or sympathy being shown towards someone who has worked very hard on this game so far. The game may not be where everyone wants it to be but you can see the hard work that has gone into it over the last couple of years. The game has after all been created from scratch.

We as humans are not robots and things that effect our personal lives do have an effect on how we can do our jobs at times. I don't know if I have been lucky with the companies I have worked for or the manager's I have had, but when I have been struggling with issues I have always been allowed the time and space to do my job without additional pressure. The companies I have worked for have users that need the systems we develop and not having those systems in place cost these companies money.

I want the game to be the best it can be but I will not condone or support people who want to heap pressure on to someone who may have some personal issues going on in the background and at the same time is still working hard to deliver the product we all want. If you can't find it somewhere in yourself to support the team at this time and think a game is more important than someone's happiness or well being then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Couldn't agree more.

There seem to be a small number of people who think they can just go ahead and hire another coder to cover for Sebastian. Clearly that's an unreasonable expectation - this is a small dev team and not some massive company like Microsoft.

[Gauch33]

I personally realize that there's an expectation for updates to FHM14 but for me it's been fine - some things obviously need to be fixed and changed. I am however not really worrying about FHM14 at this point. It is first generation - look at the EA Sports line and check out the first releases of those games - tons of issues and bugs. The games evolved over time as will FHM. Let's just get the next one out soon and see an improvement over FHM14 - nothing will be perfect but this time try to get more of the bugs out before release.

[mrmyheadhurts]

So I guess it's more or less official? No update or patch, it's just straight to FHM15?

[archibalduk]

Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts

So I guess it's more or less official? No update or patch, it's just straight to FHM15?

No, the patch is still coming. The patch wasn't mentioned in the most recent update post, but I think that was probably inadvertent.

There is a post from Sebastian yesterday confirming that work continues on the FHM 14 match engine patch: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3746958

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

The 2014 patch is not folded but recent events in my private life made it a lot more complicated. Since all the changes will go into 2015 as well it is not wasted time. So everyone who wants to stay with 2014 will get the changed match engine as well.

[TheAdamBn]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

The 2014 patch is not folded but recent events in my private life made it a lot more complicated. Since all the changes will go into 2015 as well it is not wasted time. So everyone who wants to stay with 2014 will get the changed match engine as well.

Its nice to finally see some honesty especially in that last line. That reads (in my opinion anyway) as if work is solely focused on FHM15 now with a port of the match engine coming to 14 once 15 comes out for people so jaded that they won't buy the new version

Probably the best option.

[Orioles1966]

Since I'm not seriously playing any leagues at the present time, I don't see why they couldn't release the new patch in beta ,that way it would speed up the process and bugs would be found quicker.

Of course,if you didn't want the beta version ,you could continue with the present game.

[omjo]

I think some of us need to remember, it's just a game. Yeah, some things are taking longer than expected... But that's how life can be. Not everything always goes as planned.

Hope all is well Sebastien, and whatever is going on gets resolved quickly and easily. Not so that game development can continue, but for your own self. That would just be a bonus I suppose.

People saying I don't sympathize with him, give your heads a shake.

[Ciccarelli]

The main thing about this is that burnout/depression (whatever Sebastian is dealing with right now) is a very serious issue, something that I've dealt with personally in the past, both with myself and family. With that being said, Sebastian can take all the time he needs. I'll still be here.

*thumbs up*