Lets Talk about Defense Part 2 - The Upgrades

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by stl jason

Johnny Pesky.... trains up fast at 2B... 7 straight great glove awards for my pack-only team (and has a solid bat, depending on your level... won the batting title a couple years ago for me in silver league)

Pesky still plays well in perfect leagues.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by OMGPuppies

2b seems to be a tough position to find good defense at/

Ozzie Smith trained up to a 108 rated second baseman.

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Pesky still plays well in perfect leagues.

good to know... been severly tempted to bend my pre-ww2 team roster rule and bring him aboard (his 1946 card is 1 year over my cutoff date), as my defense is typically sieve-like and he's a solid and affordable option...

the little voice in my head keeps saying "but his career started in '42... technically he qualifies"

[OMGPuppies]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

Not if you're open to training a SS there.

For the training, do you just put the guy as your backup at the position you want to train them for for a few seasons?

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by OMGPuppies

For the training, do you just put the guy as your backup at the position you want to train them for for a few seasons?

Put him in the lineup to play and gain experience. Use a defensive sub as needed.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by OMGPuppies

For the training, do you just put the guy as your backup at the position you want to train them for for a few seasons?

You want them to play as much as possible. For Ozzie at 2B I had him play every game when he was not tired and it still took him one full season plus a chunk of a second season to raise his position rating to 108.


After one full season he was around a 93 or so.

[Maddox]

Oh and going back to my team. Here are their ratings for the positions I have them at

C - Bob Boone - 120
1B - Keith Hernandez - 79
2B - Ozzie Smith - 108
SS - Luis Aparicio - 110
3B - Buddy Bell - 91
LF - Ichiro Suzuki - 102
CF - Mike Trout - 85
RF - Kevin McReynolds - 117

After two months I have a ZR of +34.7. The next closest team is at +14.6

[Orcin]

Is Trout the best center fielder for fielding? I thought Maddox was better and... well...

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Is Trout the best center fielder for fielding? I thought Maddox was better and... well...

Best? No.

He was my attempt to get an good fielder that could also provide some offense. Buddy Bell and Hernandez are included for the same reasons (although Bell is not doing that great). I am sure if I tried I could probably get every position rating above 100.

Preventing runs goes a long way but it does not matter unless you can score some also.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Maddox

Best? No.

He was my attempt to get an good fielder that could also provide some offense. Buddy Bell and Hernandez are included for the same reasons (although Bell is not doing that great). I am sure if I tried I could probably get every position rating above 100.

Preventing runs goes a long way but it does not matter unless you can score some also.

I'd consider a better CF like Maddox or if you want to splurge, Andruw Jones and moving Trout to LF.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

I'd consider a better CF like Maddux or if you want to splurge, Andruw Jones and moving Trout to LF.

I may look into that. I am building up points again and trying to decide what to upgrade next.

Your suggestion would be an option, depending on how good Trout could become at LF. But let's face it how can I have three teams and no Maddox?

I could also look for upgrades to Hernandez and Bell, although I would like some offense out of those positions as well.

I could possibly replace Ojeda in my rotation. He is beginning to struggle in gold some.

[atabakin]

86 Paul Blair and 88 Chet Lemon also provide 98-99 CF, but good luck finding them on the AH.

[zrog2000]

Originally Posted by Maddox

I may look into that. I am building up points again and trying to decide what to upgrade next.

Your suggestion would be an option, depending on how good Trout could become at LF. But let's face it how can I have three teams and no Maddox?

I could also look for upgrades to Hernandez and Bell, although I would like some offense out of those positions as well.

I could possibly replace Ojeda in my rotation. He is beginning to struggle in gold some.

Trout should get up to 107 in LF.

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by zrog2000

Trout should get up to 107 in LF.

I've won 4 straight Gold Gloves with Trout in LF on one of my teams. I went with Maddox in CF, but that's a huge offensive downgrade. The problem is that there aren't very many equal or better defensive CF than Trout that can hit really well, so Trout is sort of stuck there even though he can be even better in LF.

EDIT: Ricky Henderson 97, Willie Mays 100, and Eric Davis 96 (if you are ok with his garbage Avoid K's) are the only players I can see that play similar or better CF and hit well enough to supplant Trout in CF.

[Matt Arnold]

Originally Posted by atabakin

86 Paul Blair and 88 Chet Lemon also provide 98-99 CF, but good luck finding them on the AH.

I saw the diamond Griffey recently who was a 103 in CF. But yeah he was definitely not cheap.

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

I saw the diamond Griffey recently who was a 103 in CF. But yeah he was definitely not cheap.

That Griffey is not a great OBP or GAP hitter and probably shouldn't start vs. RHP in the higher leagues. He's basically a HR or K guy. He's at best a starter vL and backup vR.

Oh, and Blair and Lemon are pretty much unplayable vR in Diamond or Perfect Leagues.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

I've won 4 straight Gold Gloves with Trout in LF on one of my teams. I went with Maddox in CF, but that's a huge offensive downgrade. The problem is that there aren't very many equal or better defensive CF than Trout that can hit really well, so Trout is sort of stuck there even though he can be even better in LF.

EDIT: Ricky Henderson 97, Willie Mays 100, and Eric Davis 96 (if you are ok with his garbage Avoid K's) are the only players I can see that play similar or better CF and hit well enough to supplant Trout in CF.

If I move Trout to LF then the bat I need to supplant is Ichiro. So moving Trout to left and getting someone like Maddox for center should not only improve my overall defense but also my offense.

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

Oh, and Blair and Lemon are pretty much unplayable vR in Diamond or Perfect Leagues.

Blair is unplayable vs Righties? What is it about his splits or performance that leads you to a different conclusion than mine?

[DonkeyKongSr]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

Blair is unplayable vs Righties? What is it about his splits or performance that leads you to a different conclusion than mine?

I'll update my thoughts on him: Paul Blair is unplayable in Diamond and Perfect Leagues vs. any handedness.

His Garbage EYE (28 vL, 35 vR) + mediocre CON (64, 62) means he's just not getting on base much. I've got him at around 780th for OBP vL and vR. No winning Perfect League team should have a hitter that is that bad. Yeah, he's a top 5 OF defender, but as a terrible hitter and unremarkable runner, he brings nothing else to the table.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

I'll update my thoughts on him: Paul Blair is unplayable in Diamond and Perfect Leagues vs. any handedness.

His Garbage EYE (28 vL, 35 vR) + mediocre CON (64, 62) means he's just not getting on base much. I've got him at around 780th for OBP vL and vR. No winning Perfect League team should have a hitter that is that bad. Yeah, he's a top 5 OF defender, but as a terrible hitter and unremarkable runner, he brings nothing else to the table.

He is on one team in my Perfect league. He has been there for five+ seasons, so he has nearly 3000 plate appearances. His career slash line is .225/.269/.395 but he has accumulated 17 WAR. That defense is worth something, but yeah you better be able to bat him ninth.