The legacy issue thread!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by gentlemanofleisure

Wild pitches with a runner on third never gets thrown out.

And I mean NEVER.

Bunting for a hit is almost non existent. even with 1985 Vince Coleman.

^ Both of these.

[CobaltJays]

Waivers should not be required when designating a player for assignment. In real life, players often are waived after being DFA'd, but not always. Sometimes they get traded instead, and by requiring waivers, OOTP effectively negates that real life option.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

Waivers should not be required when designating a player for assignment. In real life, players often are waived after being DFA'd, but not always. Sometimes they get traded instead, and by requiring waivers, OOTP effectively negates that real life option.

Choices after DFAing a player (Wikipedia):

"return the player to the 40-man roster within 10 days from the date of designation, or

make one of the following contractual moves:

Place the player on waivers (which can only be done within the first 7 days of the 10-day period)

Trade the player

Release the player

Outright the player from the 40-man roster into the Minor Leagues"

OOTP should reflect this.

[legofarley]

The pitching triple crown should be recorded in the league stats history.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Choices after DFAing a player (Wikipedia):

"return the player to the 40-man roster within 10 days from the date of designation, or

make one of the following contractual moves:

Place the player on waivers (which can only be done within the first 7 days of the 10-day period)

Trade the player

Release the player

Outright the player from the 40-man roster into the Minor Leagues"

OOTP should reflect this.

From the "AZ Phil's Corner" section of The Cub Reporter web site, which has very good descriptions of many of the Major League Rules:

Designated for Assignment (DFA)

Sometimes a club wants to remove a player from its MLB Reserve List (40-man roster), but it has to be done immediately because the player's roster slot is needed. Or sometimes a club wants to remove a player only from its MLB Active List (25-man roster), but Optional Assignment Waivers must be secured before the player can be optioned to the minors. In those cases, a club can place a player on the Designated List.

When a player is placed on the Designated List (and is "Designated for Assignment"), the "Designated Player" is removed from his club's MLB Reserve List (40-man roster), and then the club has up to ten days to either trade, release, non-tender, or outright the player to the minors. A club can also return a Designated Player to the 40-man roster and either option the player to the minors or reinstate the player to the 25-man roster, as long as the Designated Player is not replaced on the 40-man roster by another player while the player is on the Designated List. (A club might have to DFA a player to buy time while it attempts to secure Optional Assignment Waivers).

A player on Optional Assignment to the minors must be "Recalled - Not to Report" before he can be Designated for Assignment.

The player continues to be paid and the player accrues MLB Service Time while on the Designated List.

Also, a player acquired off waivers can be placed back onto Outright Waivers by his new club and can be outrighted to the minors if he is not claimed, but if a club acquires a player off waivers and the claiming club's 40-man roster is full so that the club needs to remove a player from its MLB Reserve List in order to open a spot on its 40-man roster for the newly-acquired player, the player who was claimed off waivers cannot be the player who gets "Designated for Assignment."

Note that the act of outrighting or releasing a player requires waivers.

[bailey]

I know OOTP is basically a solo game with online league grafted on, but by now I think some attention should be paid to the way free agency works in online leagues. In solo play, you make an offer and you can sim day by day until you get the following message:

Message Type: Contracts
Subject: RF, Jim Jackson: Contract Negotiation Update
Date 1/6/14

Just thought I ought to let you know that New York has proposed a more appealing figure, and give you the chance to counter it if you want.

5 days later Jim Jackson signs with New York, because the commissioner simmed another 20 days leaving the GM with no chance to counter offer.

In an online league these messages are nearly always pointless because the commissioner has to sim through the off-season 20-30 days at a time. Somehow "Jim Jackson" needs to be informed of the date he can expect a counter offer when it is an online league. Free agency would so much more interesting if GM's had a chance to counter other player's bids. I suggest the commissioner of online leagues be allowed to input dates of the free agency simulation periods at setup and that the "Jim Jackson"s of OOTP wait for a date beyond the next simulation before making a decision.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

From the "AZ Phil's Corner" section of The Cub Reporter web site, which has very good descriptions of many of the Major League Rules:

Note that the act of outrighting or releasing a player requires waivers.

Yes, but there are ten days before you have to do that even in those cases, and there are other things that can be done that don't required waivers.

The issue is this: "Waivers should not be required when designating a player for assignment. In real life, players often are waived after being DFA'd, but not always. Sometimes they get traded instead, and by requiring waivers, OOTP effectively negates that real life option."

So the point stands: DFAing a player should NOT require waivers.

[thehef]

More-complete player transaction history...

In the form of an example: It's 1915 and I'll see a player in the free agent list who last played for Brooklyn in 1913. I look at his history and see scouting history and injury history and whatever else, but nothing to indicate when & how he left Brooklyn...

There should be history for whenever a player leaves and team and joins a new one, regardless of how the transaction happens (even if it's a "commissioner action" of the OOTP gamer releasing the player or moving him to a new team).

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

... OOTP effectively negates that real life option.

There are several other real-life transaction rules of which that could be said. Part of the issue is that Markus is somewhat reluctant to make the rules too close to real-life for fear of taking the fun out of the game by making it too complicated. While I generally disagree with that, I can certainly understand the sentiment.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

There are several other real-life transaction rules of which that could be said. Part of the issue is that Markus is somewhat reluctant to make the rules too close to real-life for fear of taking the fun out of the game by making it too complicated. While I generally disagree with that, I can certainly understand the sentiment.

While I think that's very much true in general, in this case I'd say the real life rule is actually less of a headache for the OOTP player than the way OOTP models things. So I guess I don't see the downside to correctly modeling the rl rules in this specific instance.

[thehef]

Historical Transactions...

Please fix the bug described here - http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...e-problem.html - and also incorporate one or both of these:

1. On the Real Transactions Listing, include a checkbox that enables the gamer to uncheck any historical transaction and thus prevent it from happening.

2. Allow the use of a csv historical transactions file so it can be edited.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

While I think that's very much true in general, in this case I'd say the real life rule is actually less of a headache for the OOTP player than the way OOTP models things. So I guess I don't see the downside to correctly modeling the rl rules in this specific instance.

Totally agree. There are some things that would be painful to implement, but having ten days to put a player on waivers is not one of them.

[CobaltJays]

DFA/waivers have improved over the years, but they still need some tweaks. When a player on the 40-man roster with a minor league contract is traded for or claimed off waivers, he gets sent to the lowest minor league team and the acquiring team isn't required to place him on the 40-man roster. The acquiring team should be forced to put him on the 40-man roster, as in real life.

The handling of contracts is probably my biggest irritant in OOTP right now. In addition to the problem of players sitting out for entire seasons (which is a big problem), the AI also goes to arbitration with marginal players that are destined to be outrighted off the roster. It contributes to the problem of AI teams constantly being in the red financially.

In my fictional league, Jeremy Parker is a prime example of this. He's a 33 year old utility infielder with 4 years, 117 days of major league experience (as of July 9, 2035). Since becoming arbitration eligible, he's wound up with the following contracts:

10/02/2030 Signed a 1-year contract extension worth a total of $800,000 with the Rimouski Lapins organization.
09/30/2031 Signed a 1-year contract extension worth a total of $950,000 with the Rimouski Lapins organization.
11/06/2032 Received a 1-year contract worth a total of $1,100,000 through arbitration.
11/06/2033 Received a 1-year contract worth a total of $1,300,000 through arbitration.
11/05/2034 Received a 1-year contract worth a total of $1,500,000 through arbitration.

From 2031-34, he never appeared in more than 37 major league games in a single season. Most of his time during those years was spent in the minors as the backup infielder. Such a marginal player would've been non-tendered and possibly re-signed to a minor league contract in real life. No team should fork over $1+ million each year for an easily replaceable player ticketed for the minors.

Another issue is that in real life, players can elect to become free agents if outrighted for a second time in their careers. This rule isn't represented in OOTP, and a player can be outrighted multiple times without any trouble (as has been the case with Mr. Parker). Making some of these guys free agents instead might partially address the issue of expensive contracts for fringe major leaguers.

I'd also like to see split contracts in the game. Players should not receive the full major league minimum for time spent in the minors. If an AI team sends a player to the minors at the start of the season, he will receive the league minimum for the entire year. Having 15+ guys in the minors making $500,000 or more really eats into the AI's budget. I've long suggested that players making the league minimum should make $0 while in the minors. As it stands now, AI teams are often so cash-strapped that they can't afford to acquire a player making the league minimum unless it sheds payroll at the same time. In real life, no team's finances are so tight that they can't acquire a guy making the league minimum.

The issue with useful players sitting out entire seasons because of unrealistic contract demands is a particular problem in my league. I like small fictional leagues (my current league went from 8 teams to 12, with no plans for additional expansion), and as a result there are fewer potential buyers for players. Too many career minor leaguers on the free agent market demand salaries over $700,000, go unsigned and then retire. While some do eventually lower their demands, many don't. Those players would be useful to have in AAA for depth in case a need arises at the major league level, but they lose out on that opportunity due to their unrealistic demands. Players need to be much more willing to accept minor league contracts.

If you release a player and he remains unsigned in the free agent pool, at some point he should forgive you and be willing to re-sign with you. AI teams can seemingly re-sign players they released (without another team having signed that player in the interim), so human teams should be able to as well.

All in all, the game has improved a lot over the last few years. I'd just like to see some of these long-standing issues addressed so that the AI teams stand a better chance of being competitive.

[bailey]

If you release a player with multiple years remaining you have to pay the whole amount of salary remaining. There should be a category "other salaries" so the balance due is paid out as originally scheduled. Same with career ending injuries; that contract should not just disappear.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

While I think that's very much true in general, in this case I'd say the real life rule is actually less of a headache for the OOTP player than the way OOTP models things. So I guess I don't see the downside to correctly modeling the rl rules in this specific instance.

I disagree also...I am looking for a GM simulator...not a game like Baseball Mogul or The Show. Please try to stay to actual MLB rules. It make for a far better experience.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I disagree also...I am looking for a GM simulator...not a game like Baseball Mogul or The Show. Please try to stay to actual MLB rules. It make for a far better experience.

Hey, I'm with you on that.

Markus isn't always on board though and I can see his point.

[CobaltJays]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I disagree also...I am looking for a GM simulator...not a game like Baseball Mogul or The Show. Please try to stay to actual MLB rules. It make for a far better experience.

This is my view as well. I'm fine with certain things being simplified (for example, I don't miss the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft), but if the game does try to replicate a real-life rule, the key aspects of that rule should be included in the game. I consider the ability to trade a DFA'd player a key aspect of the rules relating to DFA'd players.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

Another issue is that in real life, players can elect to become free agents if outrighted for a second time in their careers.

To be more specific, players being outrighted a second time in their career, or those with three or more years of major league service (whether it's their first or second outright), can elect to either become a free agent immediately, in which case they forfeit any termination pay, or they can accept the assignment and elect to become free agents after the season is over if not returned to the 40-man roster by a set date.

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

I'd also like to see split contracts in the game. Players should not receive the full major league minimum for time spent in the minors.

That's the case now in OOTP 14, although it's not made clear in the game. Players on option in the minors only receive a portion of the major league minimum salary.

Originally Posted by CobaltJays

If you release a player and he remains unsigned in the free agent pool, at some point he should forgive you and be willing to re-sign with you.

There are restrictions around this in real life. A major league player released between Aug. 31st and the start of the next season cannot be re-signed to a major league contract by the releasing team until May 15th of that next season. A major league player released between the start of the regular season and Aug. 31st cannot be re-signed to a major league contract by the releasing team for thirty days.

[CobaltJays]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

That's the case now in OOTP 14, although it's not made clear in the game. Players on option in the minors only receive a portion of the major league minimum salary.

Does the AI factor this into its decision making? How is it accounted for when determining available budget room?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I disagree also...I am looking for a GM simulator...not a game like Baseball Mogul or The Show. Please try to stay to actual MLB rules. It make for a far better experience.

I'm also on board with you on that.