NFL 2019 Thread

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I'm sure his contract isn't terminated. When he is reinstated, I'm positive the Browns will own his rights.

Do you think they'll release him? I don't know them well enough, just that they historically never make the right decisions.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Do you think they'll release him? I don't know them well enough, just that they historically never make the right decisions.

The NFL doesn't give a bleep about character. Only talent. We are talking about the same team that signed Kareem Hunt,

But personally, I don't believe he deserves a lifetime ban or to get fired. One of the things I loved about my dad was that he never punished us for some of the worst stuff we did. Because he could see the fear, shame, remorse or all of the above in our faces & knew we wouldn't do it again. That's what discipline is for. To correct & prevent it from happening again.

Garrett's post game reaction leads me to believe he is sorry for what happened. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't believe he'll come close to doing something like this again. The suspension gets more use as a warning to the rest of the NFL not to cross a similar line. I think he will, and should, play for the Browns again. I don't believe someone should be eternally punished for one terrible mistake that didn't take or ruin a life.

[rudel.dietrich]

He also as far as I can find has no history of violent behavior in college or the NFL prior to this.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

He also as far as I can find has no history of violent behavior in college or the NFL prior to this.

But he does have a history of some pretty nasty personal fouls against quarterbacks. I saw a few clips on another site. This was probably the first time a QB fought back after being taken down.

[damientheomen3]

When the Browns played the Jets earlier this season he had three late hits on the QB I'm pretty sure (definitely at least two) and when he shredded backup QB Trevor Siemien's ankle he brought him down by his collar, which wasn't called. He then had the gall to say after the game that he wasn't a dirty player.

What he did was disgusting, and he deserves his suspension. He should miss at least half of next season as well. I have to admit, though, as a selfish fan of the game I don't want to see him be banned as he's incredibly talented. I also don't want to see him be released (no way he will be imo) because then that sets him up for a BS 'redemption story' with his next team and muddy the waters of what he did.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

What he did was disgusting, and he deserves his suspension. He should miss at least half of next season as well. I have to admit, though, as a selfish fan of the game I don't want to see him be banned as he's incredibly talented.

Interesting quote in a couple of ways. Yes, he deserves his suspension but he should also have his head examined. What is the provocation, specifically in this game and in general, for his behavior? The Browns were winning the game, 21-7. A defensive end is not directly shown up by a quarterback's success. What accounts for his rage?

Secondly, that last sentence, ". . . as a selfish fan of the game I don't want to see him be banned as he's incredibly talented." I'm not picking on you, but that's why the "The NFL doesn't give a bleep about character. Only talent." (Cobra Mgr) and "The NFL, and all sports, need to do a better job with this level of violence and unsportsmanship." (Rizon)

[Cobra Mgr]

Myles reminds me of the way they used to write Wolverine in the comics. Logan was always trying to keep his bezerker rage in check whenever he went into battle. It's like there is a switch on him. I don't know the guy of course, but the over the line player on the field doesn't match the persona of the man I've seen in past interviews. Again, I admit to possibly being naive.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Interesting quote in a couple of ways. Yes, he deserves his suspension but he should also have his head examined. What is the provocation, specifically in this game and in general, for his behavior? The Browns were winning the game, 21-7. A defensive end is not directly shown up by a quarterback's success. What accounts for his rage?

Secondly, that last sentence, ". . . as a selfish fan of the game I don't want to see him be banned as he's incredibly talented." I'm not picking on you, but that's why the "The NFL doesn't give a bleep about character. Only talent." (Cobra Mgr) and "The NFL, and all sports, need to do a better job with this level of violence and unsportsmanship." (Rizon)

Feel free to pick on me. IMO people have done worse without a lifetime ban (Michael Vick comes to mind) or gotten off almost entirely scot-free (Ben Roethlisberger). This situation's a completely different animal because it occurred on the field on national TV, but with the way the NFL tries to work around its negative narratives I'd imagine we won't hear much more about this issue in the media within a few days.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Myles reminds me of the way they used to write Wolverine in the comics. Logan was always trying to keep his bezerker rage in check whenever he went into battle. It's like there is a switch on him. I don't know the guy of course, but the over the line player on the field doesn't match the persona of the man I've seen in past interviews. Again, I admit to possibly being naive.

ProFootballFocus's main podcast guys went to a joint Browns-Texans practice in the preseason and they said multiple fights broke out, and in every situation Garrett immediately disassociated himself from the fight and walked away. So I've been surprised with his conduct on the field at times this season as well.

[Ragnar]

For me it's just the unsportsman like conduct. I don't even care that Garrett wanted to squish the QB at the end of the game because a penalty at that point wouldn't matter. But he took it a little too far afterwards.

[slic1149]

Football is the closest thing to war that is offered as popular entertainment. Players are taught to be as violent as possible during the game and devastating injuries are part of the game. Myles was simply doing what he was trained to do and took it too far. Perhaps the issue isn't whether he acted like a criminal, but instead whether violence is so ingrained in the game that we should be surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. I am not defending the perpetrator, instead I am blasting the fact that so many of us cheer when someone is knocked to kingdom come. The game of football is often beautiful to watch, but as the players become larger and even more violent we will eventually progress from paralyzed players to dead ones

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by slic1149

Football is the closest thing to war that is offered as popular entertainment. Players are taught to be as violent as possible during the game and devastating injuries are part of the game. Myles was simply doing what he was trained to do and took it too far. Perhaps the issue isn't whether he acted like a criminal, but instead whether violence is so ingrained in the game that we should be surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. I am not defending the perpetrator, instead I am blasting the fact that so many of us cheer when someone is knocked to kingdom come. The game of football is often beautiful to watch, but as the players become larger and even more violent we will eventually progress from paralyzed players to dead ones

Well said. Captures my thoughts nicely.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by slic1149

Football is the closest thing to war that is offered as popular entertainment. Players are taught to be as violent as possible during the game and devastating injuries are part of the game. Myles was simply doing what he was trained to do and took it too far. Perhaps the issue isn't whether he acted like a criminal, but instead whether violence is so ingrained in the game that we should be surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. I am not defending the perpetrator, instead I am blasting the fact that so many of us cheer when someone is knocked to kingdom come. The game of football is often beautiful to watch, but as the players become larger and even more violent we will eventually progress from paralyzed players to dead ones

I'd have to disagree somewhat. You're giving Garrett an excuse he doesn't deserve. As I said earlier, Pouncey deserved punishment because you see his teammates didn't take it as far as he did. They were able to keep their composure and didn't "blackout" as Pouncey described it. It is striking that w/all the experts, press vets & former players interviewed, no one could come up a similar incident. They all agreed this was unprecedented. Contemplate that since facemasks entered the NFL in the 50's there is no recollection of anyone doing what Garrett did. You have to be doing something truly unique to be the first in the 100 year history of pro football. None of the tens of 1000's of former pro football players felt compelled to do this.

So I don't blame his "upbringing" if you will. This is Myles problem. Not a football problem.

[rudel.dietrich]

The Ringer had a great story about how in the off-season he worked one on one with a coach who said something along the lines of “your a supremely gifted athlete, but you won’t be **** until you get aggressive out there”

That may account for some of the late hits.
But there is nothing to justify using a helmet as a weapon.
But he also does not need a lifetime ban.

If this was a Vontaze Burfict type situation where there was almost a decade of dirty play and trying to injure people it would be justified.

A ban for the rest of the season, voiding the rest of his pay for this season and counseling and community service in the offseason should suffice.
But he is on thin ice for as long as his career lasts.

[slic1149]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I'd have to disagree somewhat. You're giving Garrett an excuse he doesn't deserve. As I said earlier, Pouncey deserved punishment because you see his teammates didn't take it as far as he did. They were able to keep their composure and didn't "blackout" as Pouncey described it. It is striking that w/all the experts, press vets & former players interviewed, no one could come up a similar incident. They all agreed this was unprecedented. Contemplate that since facemasks entered the NFL in the 50's there is no recollection of anyone doing what Garrett did. You have to be doing something truly unique to be the first in the 100 year history of pro football. None of the tens of 1000's of former pro football players felt compelled to do this.

So I don't blame his "upbringing" if you will. This is Myles problem. Not a football problem.

The biggest difference between Myles Garrett and Jack Tatum was when Tatum hit Stingley his head was still inside the helmet and the fact he paralyzed him. Another item that should be mentioned is the dozen or so players who have beat the crap out of their wives, girl friends, and even children. While we are at lets talk about concussions, early onset Alzheimer's, and bodies that have been beaten to the point that some retired players are close to immobile. I am not trying to exonerate or excuse Garrett, I am simply saying that athletes are so strong and fast that playing football has become a dangerous, if well paid, career path.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by slic1149

The biggest difference between Myles Garrett and Jack Tatum was when Tatum hit Stingley his head was still inside the helmet and the fact he paralyzed him. Another item that should be mentioned is the dozen or so players who have beat the crap out of their wives, girl friends, and even children. While we are at lets talk about concussions, early onset Alzheimer's, and bodies that have been beaten to the point that some retired players are close to immobile. I am not trying to exonerate or excuse Garrett, I am simply saying that athletes are so strong and fast that playing football has become a dangerous, if well paid, career path.

Understood. But I'd compare it to towns near military bases. Those locations usually have higher crime rates that locales of similar size. So it is natural to make the connection between the psychological training of soldiers to the more aggressive violent response to events. But when the crime becomes unprecedented, I can't blame military manipulation for it. Individuals have to take responsibility for their own mistakes when it gets to that level. There was no devil that made them do it.

[slic1149]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Understood. But I'd compare it to towns near military bases. Those locations usually have higher crime rates that locales of similar size. So it is natural to make the connection between the psychological training of soldiers to the more aggressive violent response to events. But when the crime becomes unprecedented, I can't blame military manipulation for it. Individuals have to take responsibility for their own mistakes when it gets to that level. There was no devil that made them do it.

Taking responsibility for ones actions is always a good thing. I do think you are viewing my posts as an attempt to exonerate Garrett. That is not the case. My point is that football is a violent game played by large men who are trained to be aggressive. As long as the money is so attractive to the league, the owners and the players there will be incidents such as Garrett's. Ultimately there will be an on field incident that will make society examine the nature of the game and then have to decide whether the money is worth the danger to the participants. One brief moment of truth in advertising; I sit in front of the TV most Saturdays and Sundays watching a game I love. Sometimes I am conflicted, however I probably will not stop watching.

[monkeyman576]

Originally Posted by slic1149

Taking responsibility for ones actions is always a good thing. I do think you are viewing my posts as an attempt to exonerate Garrett. That is not the case. My point is that football is a violent game played by large men who are trained to be aggressive. As long as the money is so attractive to the league, the owners and the players there will be incidents such as Garrett's. Ultimately there will be an on field incident that will make society examine the nature of the game and then have to decide whether the money is worth the danger to the participants. One brief moment of truth in advertising; I sit in front of the TV most Saturdays and Sundays watching a game I love. Sometimes I am conflicted, however I probably will not stop watching.

There have been several deaths in boxing and horse racing and I don't see any reexamining being done.

[slic1149]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

There have been several deaths in boxing and horse racing and I don't see any reexamining being done.

Yep, I couldn't agree more. Show ponies, beaten up fighters, and every other contact sport should be as concerned about an athlete's safety as they are about money. The problem occurs when athlete's, whether they have two legs or four legs, are treated like disposable pieces of meat. But the epidemic of deaths at Santa Anita is more horrendous than anything that ever happened on a football field.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I'd have to disagree somewhat. You're giving Garrett an excuse he doesn't deserve. As I said earlier, Pouncey deserved punishment because you see his teammates didn't take it as far as he did. They were able to keep their composure and didn't "blackout" as Pouncey described it. It is striking that w/all the experts, press vets & former players interviewed, no one could come up a similar incident. They all agreed this was unprecedented. Contemplate that since facemasks entered the NFL in the 50's there is no recollection of anyone doing what Garrett did. You have to be doing something truly unique to be the first in the 100 year history of pro football. None of the tens of 1000's of former pro football players felt compelled to do this.

So I don't blame his "upbringing" if you will. This is Myles problem. Not a football problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4XHIS4pWQQ

at the 42 second mark.

I don't know why people keep saying this. Lyle Alzado did something similar to a player back in '82.