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Old 02-29-2016, 08:54 PM   #41
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OOTP 16 raised the bar on the accuracy of single season replays conducted with the game. Now a single season replay is comparable to the other games, without the necessity of paying for each season. OOTP played that way will do some things better and some things worse.. There's still room on my hard drive for the others, but OOTP keeps getting better.
I wasn't questioning the accuracy of OOTP, I was simply saying that if someone only wants to focus on a single season replay and doesn't want to worry about all the other GM duties that a career based game provides, those other games are options. As I stated, in the end I enjoy and play both types, not really a matter of one versus the other for me.
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:06 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by swampdragon View Post
OOTP 16 raised the bar on the accuracy of single season replays conducted with the game. Now a single season replay is comparable to the other games, without the necessity of paying for each season. OOTP played that way will do some things better and some things worse.. There's still room on my hard drive for the others, but OOTP keeps getting better.
Isn't it amazing how far this game has come historically? The thing that blows me away is how accurate the game captures a players entire career. Doing so without ever making you feel it's fudging the numbers to bring a player in line with reality.
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:12 AM   #43
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Funny thing is in baseball Mogul I don't know how they get their numbers but on their website it says that is the number one selling PC baseball game. Can't imagine why or how.
It's flat out wrong. I am pretty sure we outsell them 30:1 nowadays, at least.
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Old 03-01-2016, 08:53 PM   #44
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Funny this post came up. Just a few days I checked out what other sims were out there (I'm loyal to OOTP and preordered 17) just to compare.

There is no comparison.

The other sims can't come close to OOTP for realistic features and options. And let's not even talk cost comparisons.

The grass is not greener elsewhere. I'm not writing this because it's the OOTP board, but because it's the truth. No other baseball sim can hold a candle. Sure, others have some nice features, but nothing that isn't in OOTP. I'm sure others have good play engines and produce realistic results, but so does OOTP. Others have nice user interfaces, so does OOTP. Looking at what the others offer I honestly can't think of a reason to not continue with OOTP. OOTP has what the others have, and more.
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Old 03-01-2016, 09:21 PM   #45
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It's flat out wrong. I am pretty sure we outsell them 30:1 nowadays, at least.
it's just like that mug that you get that says "#1 Dad" ... not overly official.
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Old 03-01-2016, 10:10 PM   #46
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I went there to check if that really was a current selling point sheet on the Diamond Mind web site. Really? Adding player nicknames is new and big? Selling a game in 2016 and they just added 2013 historical data? Pretty sad.
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Old 03-01-2016, 11:15 PM   #47
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That's not fair or accurate, Bru. The DMB 2015 season has been out for a while.

http://diamond-mind.com/collections/...-database-2015
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Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 03-01-2016, 11:21 PM   #48
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Do you want to see what the average sports gamer thinks about computer baseball games?

11 Best Baseball Game and Season Simulators

Note that it was updated a few weeks ago.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 03-01-2016, 11:51 PM   #49
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Do you want to see what the average sports gamer thinks about computer baseball games?

11 Best Baseball Game and Season Simulators

Note that it was updated a few weeks ago.
Poor average sports gamers...
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Old 03-02-2016, 05:12 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Do you want to see what the average sports gamer thinks about computer baseball games?

11 Best Baseball Game and Season Simulators

Note that it was updated a few weeks ago.
Ugh. That hurts!
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Old 03-02-2016, 08:51 AM   #51
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@ Markus the guy NEVER said it was in any order.
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Old 03-02-2016, 09:21 AM   #52
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@ Markus the guy NEVER said it was in any order.
Well, it sure as shootin' ain't alphabetical order and the smallest blurb seems to be on OOTP which makes it just plain wrong. Oh well, word of mouth it'll have to be I guess.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:34 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
I went there to check if that really was a current selling point sheet on the Diamond Mind web site. Really? Adding player nicknames is new and big? Selling a game in 2016 and they just added 2013 historical data? Pretty sad.
That's a long story. Let's just say that DMB hasn't been regularly updated since Tippett sold it and went to work for the Red Sox. The underlying engine, which was absolutely the best in the business at the time (and is still right up there) hasn't been updated since, although there have been some cosmetic (like nicknames) and play by play improvements (for example, the nicknames are in the play by play). Season releases are separate from the changes to the main program, and they are continuing to do those.

Eventually, other games had to start catching up to the underlying DMB engine, which is close to a decade old now. OOTP may be the best example of a game which is being continuously improved. The statistical output is accurate, the play by play improves every year, and playing out a game just feels much more like baseball than it did even three years ago. My opinion three years ago was that OOTP was the world's best baseball simulation except for actually playing the games. Now I don't think I need the qualifier.
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:40 AM   #54
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Well, it sure as shootin' ain't alphabetical order and the smallest blurb seems to be on OOTP which makes it just plain wrong. Oh well, word of mouth it'll have to be I guess.
My thoughts exactly, AJ. At least they linked to OOTP.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 08-09-2016, 12:00 PM   #55
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As far as realism OOTP can't even begin to compare with Diamond Mind. I was tired of paying the $20+ per season, but I guess what you pay for. I filled a legal size notepad with AI issues in OOTP that were simply absurd within the first hour of playing. 79 Tigers rolling through 75 Reds and 73 A's, horrible BP mgt, marginal starting pitchers throwing 8 innings of 2 hit ball on a routine basis, lineups all out of whack etc. Where to begin.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:51 PM   #56
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As far as realism OOTP can't even begin to compare with Diamond Mind. I was tired of paying the $20+ per season, but I guess what you pay for. I filled a legal size notepad with AI issues in OOTP that were simply absurd within the first hour of playing. 79 Tigers rolling through 75 Reds and 73 A's, horrible BP mgt, marginal starting pitchers throwing 8 innings of 2 hit ball on a routine basis, lineups all out of whack etc. Where to begin.
So you're saying that bad pitchers can't ever pitch good games in reality and that bad teams never beat good teams?

If you think "realism" means that all mediocre pitchers allow 5-6 runs every start, never having good games or good stretches and that a decent but not great team could never beat a top team in a series or two (just look at any WS winning team's regular season results, all of them lost series and even season series against far, far inferior teams) then maybe the problem is more with your expectations than it is with OOTP.

That's not to say there may not be some valid criticism's of OOTP that are possible, there certainly are. But if you actually think there's an issue with the game and want to see changes made, you're going to have to step up your own game as far as identifying and explaining any genuine issues. If you can do so, Markus, Matt and all the folks at OOTP will certainly be more than happy to make adjustments where needed, that's their hallmark after all.

Clarification on what you mean by "horrible BP mgt" and "lineups all out of whack etc" would be a good place to begin.

It also helps if you understand that Diamond Mind and OOTP have different intentions. Diamond Mind is intended to replay single seasons so that you get almost exactly the same results as happened in reality. OOTP is intended mostly for multi-season replays and for careers and includes more variability built into the model in recognition of the fact that if we were actually somehow able to replay a season, simple variability and randomness would result in different results than happened in the first time playing through the season i.e. "history".

That model may not be your preference and that's fine if so, but it doesn't make the model any less realistic.

Last edited by Lukas Berger; 08-09-2016 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:08 PM   #57
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So you're saying that bad pitchers can't ever pitch good games in reality and that bad teams never beat good teams?

If you think "realism" means that all mediocre pitchers allow 5-6 runs every start, never having good games or good stretches and that a decent but not great team could never beat a top team in a series or two (just look at any WS winning team's regular season results, all of them lost series and even season series against far, far inferior teams) then maybe the problem is more with your expectations than it is with OOTP.

That's not to say there may not be some valid criticism's of OOTP that are possible, there certainly are. But if you actually think there's an issue with the game and want to see changes made, you're going to have to step up your own game as far as identifying and explaining any genuine issues. If you can do so, Markus, Matt and all the folks at OOTP will certainly be more than happy to make adjustments where needed, that's their hallmark after all.

Clarification on what you mean by "horrible BP mgt" and "lineups all out of whack etc" would be a good place to begin.

It also helps if you understand that Diamond Mind and OOTP have different intentions. Diamond Mind is intended to replay single seasons so that you get almost exactly the same results as happened in reality. OOTP is intended mostly for multi-season replays and for careers and includes more variability built into the model in recognition of the fact that if we were actually somehow able to replay a season, simple variability and randomness would result in different results than happened in the first time playing through the season i.e. "history".

That model may not be your preference and that's fine if so, but it doesn't make the model any less realistic.
We need a sticky sign on this forum that says, "Please don't feed the trolls". . .
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Old 08-10-2016, 12:42 AM   #58
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When I started playing OOTP a few years ago I couldn't believe I had never heard of it. It's amazing and nothing else I've seen is particularly close.

I used to be a big-time Strat guy and I still enjoy it occasionally. The one advantage the card/dice game has with historical replays is you can actually see the cards and see how the soup is made. You don't have to rely on some sort of computer formula to get your results.

That said, OOTP has always been pretty awesome with its accuracy so I'm not complaining. It's just sometimes comforting to see the six columns in Strat and see where the percentages are coming from.

What OOTP does with fictional and present-day leagues is way, WAY beyond anything Strat can accomplish.

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Old 08-10-2016, 02:12 AM   #59
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Played and enjoyed all the above. Not mentioned was another really good game back in the day made by Lance Hafner. He was ahead of his time.
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Old 08-10-2016, 10:36 AM   #60
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I used to play a game put out by Avalon Hill, can't remember the name though. Anyone play it?
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