Pitchers always bat last?

pvtitan21 · 04-05-2016, 02:04 PM

How do you make it so can put someone else other than your pitcher in 9th spot in the batting?

MBarrett · 04-05-2016, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvtitan21

How do you make it so can put someone else other than your pitcher in 9th spot in the batting?

Joe Maddon? Is that you?

gadorg · 04-05-2016, 11:19 PM

I go to my vLHP/vRHP lineups and just put one of the position players in the 9th spot. That definitely works for played-out games (you'll just get a message on your home page that your lineup is incomplete, but whatever), however, I'm not sure this works for simmed out games.

kq76 · 04-16-2016, 09:02 PM

Drag the guy in the 8th spot to the 9th.

If you want it to be an ongoing thing, that'd be a good thing to post on the suggestions board.

bwburke94 · 04-16-2016, 09:18 PM

Technically, the suggestion would be to not list a lineup as incomplete if all eight non-DH positions are listed.

BigRed75 · 04-17-2016, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBarrett

Joe Maddon? Is that you?

No, it's Chip Hale.

VARoadstter · 04-17-2016, 06:30 AM

Or Tony Larussa

Number4 · 04-17-2016, 06:44 AM

Or anyone who understands statistics. Having your worst hitter bat in front of the best ones is stupid. Your top of the lineup wants a baserunner when they come to the plate.

BigRed75 · 04-17-2016, 10:05 AM

You can extend that logic to say the pitcher should be batting 7th, because if one baserunner when the top of the lineup comes to the plate is good, then two is better, right?

I don't understand batting a good/very good/great OBP player in the 9th spot, which is the spot with the fewest number of plate appearances over the course of a season. You want guys who get on base frequently to make more plate appearances, not less.

Airdrop01 · 04-17-2016, 11:41 AM

More at bats for the worst hitter in the lineup makes sense only if it is some sort of weirdo RoyalsDevilMagic aka Escobar leading off...and then it doesn't even make sense or it wouldn't be RoyalsDevilMagic. Otherwise, it is computer nerds run amok....and I include LaRussa, Maddon and Hale in that group.

Ron. · 04-17-2016, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRed75

You can extend that logic to say the pitcher should be batting 7th, because if one baserunner when the top of the lineup comes to the plate is good, then two is better, right?

I don't understand batting a good/very good/great OBP player in the 9th spot, which is the spot with the fewest number of plate appearances over the course of a season. You want guys who get on base frequently to make more plate appearances, not less.

It just turns out that the trade off is worth it when you have a hitter as bad as the average pitcher. It's not just a hunch, it's the result you get from mathematical simulations.

Personally, I don't worry too much about what my manager is doing with the lineup. Even the difference between an optimized lineup up and a nonsensical lineup(e.g. pitcher batting 4th) is only worth a win or two over the course of a season.

CMH · 04-17-2016, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airdrop01

More at bats for the worst hitter in the lineup makes sense only if it is some sort of weirdo RoyalsDevilMagic aka Escobar leading off...and then it doesn't even make sense or it wouldn't be RoyalsDevilMagic. Otherwise, it is computer nerds run amok....and I include LaRussa, Maddon and Hale in that group.

Nice. I thought we would be past the computer nerds tired joke by now.

The closer you get to the bottom of the lineup, the less it is like the top of the lineup. In other words, while statistically it makes more sense to put your best hitters higher in the lineup, it starts to make less sense to follow that process all the way down 1-9.

Considering the strategy both the offense and defense take into account when preparing for the bottom of the lineup, you want to avoid taking the bat out of the hands of your more capable hitter if the pitcher is hitting behind him.

rpriske · 04-21-2016, 02:27 PM

It is a statistical certainty that your worst hitter should hit 8th.

However, as Ron said up-thread, it makes VERY little difference.

Sharkn20 · 04-21-2016, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

It is a statistical certainty that your worst hitter should hit 8th.

However, as Ron said up-thread, it makes VERY little difference.

Can you quote this study? I would be veey interested digging in that matter

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bwburke94 · 04-21-2016, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkn20

Can you quote this study? I would be veey interested digging in that matter

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Is LaRussa right to bat his pitcher in the eight slot? ? The Hardball Times

Sharkn20 · 04-21-2016, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwburke94

Is LaRussa right to bat his pitcher in the eight slot? ? The Hardball Times

Thanks

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Ron. · 04-21-2016, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharkn20

Can you quote this study? I would be veey interested digging in that matter

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Here's one article on it.

Westheim · 04-21-2016, 05:11 PM

- Pitchers always bat last?

As it should be, son. As it should be.

PSUColonel · 04-21-2016, 05:27 PM

Phillies did it last night and won

Edit: Pitcher batted in the #8 hole

Reed · 04-21-2016, 05:55 PM

So, according to the study at hardball times, it amounts to less than 1 run Per year??? And though they didn't say it, they are probably assuming you bat your best hitter in the 3 spot like the Cardinals and most other teams did.

04-05-2016, 02:04 PM	#1
pvtitan21 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA Posts: 66	Pitchers always bat last? How do you make it so can put someone else other than your pitcher in 9th spot in the batting?

04-16-2016, 09:02 PM	#4
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 10,703	Drag the guy in the 8th spot to the 9th. If you want it to be an ongoing thing, that'd be a good thing to post on the suggestions board. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

04-17-2016, 10:05 AM	#9
BigRed75 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 2,430	You can extend that logic to say the pitcher should be batting 7th, because if one baserunner when the top of the lineup comes to the plate is good, then two is better, right? I don't understand batting a good/very good/great OBP player in the 9th spot, which is the spot with the fewest number of plate appearances over the course of a season. You want guys who get on base frequently to make more plate appearances, not less. __________________ Mainline team SPTT team Was not a Snag fan...until I saw the fallout once he was gone and realized what a good job he was actually doing. - Ty Cobb

04-21-2016, 02:27 PM	#13
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 23,989 Blog Entries: 1	It is a statistical certainty that your worst hitter should hit 8th. However, as Ron said up-thread, it makes VERY little difference. __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

04-21-2016, 05:11 PM	#18
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 11,905	- Pitchers always bat last? As it should be, son. As it should be. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

04-05-2016, 11:19 PM	#3
gadorg Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 101	I go to my vLHP/vRHP lineups and just put one of the position players in the 9th spot. That definitely works for played-out games (you'll just get a message on your home page that your lineup is incomplete, but whatever), however, I'm not sure this works for simmed out games.

04-16-2016, 09:18 PM	#5
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,447	Technically, the suggestion would be to not list a lineup as incomplete if all eight non-DH positions are listed.

04-17-2016, 06:30 AM	#7
VARoadstter Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 211	Or Tony Larussa

04-17-2016, 06:44 AM	#8
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	Or anyone who understands statistics. Having your worst hitter bat in front of the best ones is stupid. Your top of the lineup wants a baserunner when they come to the plate.

04-17-2016, 11:41 AM	#10
Airdrop01 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lenexa, KS / Wilson, WY Posts: 1,354	More at bats for the worst hitter in the lineup makes sense only if it is some sort of weirdo RoyalsDevilMagic aka Escobar leading off...and then it doesn't even make sense or it wouldn't be RoyalsDevilMagic. Otherwise, it is computer nerds run amok....and I include LaRussa, Maddon and Hale in that group.

04-21-2016, 05:27 PM	#19
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,990 Blog Entries: 37	Phillies did it last night and won Edit: Pitcher batted in the #8 hole

04-21-2016, 05:55 PM	#20
Reed All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,947	So, according to the study at hardball times, it amounts to less than 1 run Per year??? And though they didn't say it, they are probably assuming you bat your best hitter in the 3 spot like the Cardinals and most other teams did.