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Old 02-06-2016, 11:14 AM   #21
The Game
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If the day ever comes, I hope that you aren't on my jury.


If we knew every player that juiced or is juicing I think that even the most cynical among us would be shocked. I completely expect to one day find that Junior, Jeter, Tom Brady, Tim Duncan and the Big Hurt and a thousand other names all used steroids at least to get over injuries if not for wider purposes.

I'll be looking on with a smirk when the big revelations finally hit at the reactions from the pious and pompous fans and writers that love to babble, judge and draw bright imaginary lines for themselves.
When the day comes that Big Hurt used i will stop watching baseball and burn everything i have Frank Thomas related. About did this when allegations for Maggs came out.
I dont get why many feel that cheating should be a normal part of any game or in life. i guess i am just more honest then most people.
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Old 02-06-2016, 06:56 PM   #22
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It's not acknowledging that cheating should be normal. It's recognizing that cheating is common.

Most of us have never been top athletes, so we don't understand the mindset. But if you grow up always the best on the court or field, then get to a higher level & realize you're just average by their standards, its unfamiliar territory. Then you have competitive coaches & trainers who lose their jobs when they lose competitions. Player, coach, trainer knows they are doing their best. So paranoia sinks in: "The others must be cheating somehow. They've got the edge & they aren't getting caught. If I'm going to continue to make my goals, I'm going to have to do the same."

A well known poll of Olympic participants asked them if they would be willing to take a drug that would guarantee victory, but also assure they would die within 10 years. And half said they would juice up. So if they are that desperate, what's it to them that they could take a drug that won't necessarily kill them but shave off a tenth on their 40 time or get a baseball a split second faster thru the infield?

I actually go further than ConnChris. It wouldn't shock me to find out Selig, the San Diego Chicken & Harry Carry took something. In my mind, I assume the best are juicing. But I don't accuse them until there is evidence.
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Old 02-06-2016, 11:55 PM   #23
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:21 PM   #24
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Old 02-07-2016, 11:53 PM   #25
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LOL at Manning winning a Super Bowl in the worst season of his career, although I guess it makes up for all those times his teams were #1 or #2 seeds and went out in the divisional playoffs.
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:09 AM   #26
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History will now remember him for all the right reasons instead of finding excuses to minimize his accomplishments.
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:08 AM   #27
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I'm from Indianapolis, a huge Colts fan...and really, I don't care for Manning. Something about the guy has always seemed fake as a three dollar bill to me. Plus, instead of doing the honorable thing and retiring when the Colts drafted Andrew Luck, he had to show them and Luck up by going elsewhere.

It always bugged me that Favre caught hell for the same sort of move - not turning over the reins to Rodgers and retiring gracefully - but not Media Darling Peyton. Even Joe Montana got more flak for not retiring in favor of Steve Young.

This year, he made the playoffs on his backup's coattails, but no, it's all Peyton, all the time. Puke me. As much as I can't stand Tom Brady either, he'll always be the better QB in my eyes, just from Super Bowl rings alone. I hope Luck shoves it back down Peyton's throat and wins three Super Bowls before he's through.
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:11 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
It's not acknowledging that cheating should be normal. It's recognizing that cheating is common.

Most of us have never been top athletes, so we don't understand the mindset. But if you grow up always the best on the court or field, then get to a higher level & realize you're just average by their standards, its unfamiliar territory. Then you have competitive coaches & trainers who lose their jobs when they lose competitions. Player, coach, trainer knows they are doing their best. So paranoia sinks in: "The others must be cheating somehow. They've got the edge & they aren't getting caught. If I'm going to continue to make my goals, I'm going to have to do the same."

A well known poll of Olympic participants asked them if they would be willing to take a drug that would guarantee victory, but also assure they would die within 10 years. And half said they would juice up. So if they are that desperate, what's it to them that they could take a drug that won't necessarily kill them but shave off a tenth on their 40 time or get a baseball a split second faster thru the infield?

I actually go further than ConnChris. It wouldn't shock me to find out Selig, the San Diego Chicken & Harry Carry took something. In my mind, I assume the best are juicing. But I don't accuse them until there is evidence.
The only juice Harry ever took was Budweiser or Falstaff. The Chicken has been questioned for adding a little something to his chicken feed, however.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:06 AM   #29
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Plus, instead of doing the honorable thing and retiring when the Colts drafted Andrew Luck, he had to show them and Luck up by going elsewhere.
How is it not honorable to continue playing when you still have more good years left to play? Should all older players retire before they're ready to just because some young guy with potential shows up on the scene? Also, how is it that a guy who is supposed to have retired showed up his young replacement? Oh yeah, because even in his waning years he's still better than the replacement. If Manning had stunk it up in Denver right off the bat then maybe you'd have a modicum of a point, but he still had 3 years where he played much better than Luck. That's not showing up, that's just playing a better ball game.
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Old 02-08-2016, 08:29 AM   #30
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How is it not honorable to continue playing when you still have more good years left to play? Should all older players retire before they're ready to just because some young guy with potential shows up on the scene? Also, how is it that a guy who is supposed to have retired showed up his young replacement? Oh yeah, because even in his waning years he's still better than the replacement. If Manning had stunk it up in Denver right off the bat then maybe you'd have a modicum of a point, but he still had 3 years where he played much better than Luck. That's not showing up, that's just playing a better ball game.
I have to agree with this. Sorry, TSG, but what you said sounded like sour grapes.
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:20 AM   #31
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Why not play 5 more seasons. You have to only drop back and throw 24 times a game. Complete 52% of them and are only asked to break 150 yards a season.
With that defense you don't really need to do a whole lot.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:14 AM   #32
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As much as I can't stand Tom Brady either, he'll always be the better QB in my eyes, just from Super Bowl rings alone.
Please don't say that. Rings are no way of judging how good a QB is. It's like saying Dilfer was better than Marino. Wins and losses are team stats, not player stats.

After last night, Peyton is no more or less a QB than he was before. He's the best QB I ever saw, regardless.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:24 AM   #33
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Please don't say that. Rings are no way of judging how good a QB is. It's like saying Dilfer was better than Marino. Wins and losses are team stats, not player stats.

After last night, Peyton is no more or less a QB than he was before. He's the best QB I ever saw, regardless.
And Tom Brady is the best QB I've ever seen. I will never hold that fact that his teams wins against him.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:56 AM   #34
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Congrats to Peyton! Really glad to see him go out as a winner. He's a class act.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:58 AM   #35
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Congrats to Peyton! Really glad to see him go out as a winner. He's a class act.
I agree. What a great career.
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Old 02-08-2016, 11:06 AM   #36
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When the Giants beat the Pats the second time, the media wanted to say Eli was better than Peyton. And of course, the majority said Brady was better. And the thing that everyone pointed to was the rings.

I put up a poll on a website & it had Brady & both Mannings career stats up to that moment. But I split Brady's. The years up to his 3 (at that time) rings & the subsequent years where he didn't win. The majority picked ringless Brady #1, Peyton 2, Eli 3, 3 rings Brady 4. It was obvious when you looked @ Brady's stats that he didn't become a worse QB after winning 3 SB's. But somehow Tom winning 3 , Eli winning 2, made them automatically better?

Rings are a criteria in measuring greatness. It is not THE criteria in measuring greatness. As someone said earlier, Peyton's legacy shouldn't have changed on Sunday from what it was on Saturday. To be honest, what I saw showed me just what a shadow of himself he has now become. He looked more like Neil O'Donnell than Joe Montana. It is a shame that what happened yesterday somehow changed the narrative for the people who record history. But for Peyton's sake, I'm glad it removed any negative commentary on his terrific career.
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:04 PM   #37
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Please don't say that. Rings are no way of judging how good a QB is. It's like saying Dilfer was better than Marino. Wins and losses are team stats, not player stats.

No more than they are during the regular season. The #'s a QB puts up during the regular season are all team stats too. He needs good WR's to catch the ball, he needs a OL to protect him.


Rings are part of the equation, in the same way you don't judge a baseball player on 1 stat. You don't just look at HR's, or just Avg, you look at a number of things. Same applies with a QB. The great ones lead (because that's a huge part of their job, leading) their team to victory during the regular season and the play offs.


So rings are part of the equation when judging greatness. Nobody ever got in the HOF because they were good at just 1 thing.

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After last night, Peyton is no more or less a QB than he was before. He's the best QB I ever saw, regardless.

Absolutely agree, he's been great for a long time.


I like to think of Peyton Manning as one of the "Smartest" QB's I had the privilege of watching. When Peyton wasn't on the field, he was always studying film on the bench. Many times the Colts fell behind early, only to see Peyton figure out the D and take it apart in the 2nd half.


For me, win or lose last night, he was a top QB in the NFL.
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:09 PM   #38
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I knew he didn't play well last night, but this even shocked me:

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60. Peyton Manning

And on the other side of the field, there was Manning, who may still be drinking Budweiser as you read this Monday morning. Manning finished the day with a staggeringly low 9.9 QBR, the lowest single-game figure for a winning quarterback in the playoffs since the statistic was invented. Passers with a QBR of 15 or less were previously 0-19 in the postseason, and in 2015, passers with a similar QBR were 5-39 (.114).
He might have been the worst winning QB ever in the playoffs in SB50. Still one of the greatest of all time though.
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:24 PM   #39
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Yeah, Denver won that game with defense. If Cam and the Panthers could've figured out the defense they would have easily won. The Denver offense couldn't really do anything.
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:59 PM   #40
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And Tom Brady is the best QB I've ever seen. I will never hold that fact that his teams wins against him.
I don't hold it against him at all. I don't factor wins and losses in any evaluation of a football player, good or bad. All things considered, I say Peyton over Brady. Just my opinion, you're entitled to yours
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