Den @ KC ending

Cobra Mgr · 09-17-2015, 11:51 PM

2 people to fuss at.............

There is absolutely no excuse for Jamaal Charles not securing the football. None. What. So. Ever.

But if you're going to just hand the ball off, why do that instead of just kneeling & going into OT? Andy Reid called an oxymoron. A risky conservative play.

HOLY Joe Pisarcik, Batman!

Ragnar · 09-18-2015, 12:36 AM

I am puzzled by that call as well. From your own 20 with just over 30 seconds left with one timeout and he runs the ball? Would they have called that play with a 4 point lead? Probably not. But are the two situations that much different if you're going to run the ball?

I guess it was just a simple handoff.

Airdrop01 · 09-18-2015, 09:27 AM

I was at that game. (And pretty much every one). How it was a game when Chiefs had five turnovers is astonishing. But, I don't agree that the run was a bad call. Obviously you can take a knee. But it was 36 seconds left. One timeout, and that play call almost semi-regularly gets 20 yards. Jamaal wasn't being careless with the ball, but he did get it stripped, obviously. It was a horrible way to lose a game. Crushing. But the Chiefs had 9 penalties, more false starts than Denver (I think) and a boatload of other missed opportunities to salt that one away after going up 14-0.

It is far and away the weirdest ending I've seen in person....it tops the one where Phillip Rivers fumbled the kneel down snap and Chiefs recovered it and won a few years ago.

Anyway, I am fine with that call. Other things not so much....like the stupid Maclin reverses and option passes they ran a few times in the red zone....36 seconds is easily enough time if that play busts to get a long FG try with that, a time out, and a couple of catch and runs, on conventional plays, which they were getting all night.

The fumble earlier down by our own goal line he had was far worse. But, it is never one play in football. For example, before the Smith INT to Talib (not the Chris Harris one, I have no idea what that even was and it was right in front of me) Maclin had a ball thrown perfectly, right into his hands, and he just dropped it. It would have been good for 15 or 80 if he didn't fall down after catching it. Very next play is the pick.

It is never one thing with football...pretty much,,maybe besides hockey, the ultimate team sport (though baseball is still my favorite). Anyway, it was obviously huge; Jamaal knows it, etc. I just don't agree that you should be afraid, at home in the NFL, to try to win with 36 seconds left rather than take a knee and go to OT against one of the best QBs in history who while not himself, was playing very well at that moment. Moreso when you consider that you're handing the ball to a deserving pro bowl player who hasn't fumbled twice in a game in almost 100 games (I looked that one up this morning).

People on the radio at 1:30 a.m. when I was driving home complaining about that call have no idea how the offense works and I think that play had the best chance of getting them in position to run two more pass plays and kick the FG. If you don't have Charles I agree you'd take a knee. But you do and that call is fine because of it.

Side note...my buddies from Denver have come every year for 19 years now for that game and I go out there for the one there. Even they felt bad for me driving home. Gut punch.

Jason · 09-18-2015, 09:30 AM

Andy Reid is an idiot.

Love,

Philadelphia Eagles fans.

Airdrop01 · 09-18-2015, 09:38 AM

Also, Jamell Fleming basically got roasted every play...he had a really....REALLY...bad game.

monkeystyxx · 09-18-2015, 12:13 PM

From my perspective as a new football fan from outside the US, it seemed pretty dumb.

Even if Charles does get 20 yards, which isn't entirely unlikely admittedly, what then? Now you've got 20 seconds left and still 60 yards to go. Sure, it might happen for you, similar happened for Dallas on Sunday. But the percentages are probably not in your favour.

Take a knee, go into overtime. Then you've got far more time and, given how Manning was throwing, probably plenty of opportunities. Having said all that, I'm not an NFL coach, and I wasn't there.

Still, fantastic ending for a neutral, especially one who doesn't particularly like sports teams based in KC.

Was definitely a game of Defence vs. Defence, where the offenses might as well have stayed at home.

Also infuriating that I fell asleep at the end of the third quarter, and missed basically all of the excitement.

Rizon · 09-18-2015, 12:57 PM

An Andy Reid coached team falling apart at the end? I don't believe it at all, totally staged.

CD1083 · 09-18-2015, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeystyxx

From my perspective as a new football fan from outside the US, it seemed pretty dumb.

Even if Charles does get 20 yards, which isn't entirely unlikely admittedly, what then? Now you've got 20 seconds left and still 60 yards to go. Sure, it might happen for you, similar happened for Dallas on Sunday. But the percentages are probably not in your favour.

Take a knee, go into overtime. Then you've got far more time and, given how Manning was throwing, probably plenty of opportunities. Having said all that, I'm not an NFL coach, and I wasn't there.

Still, fantastic ending for a neutral, especially one who doesn't particularly like sports teams based in KC.

Was definitely a game of Defence vs. Defence, where the offenses might as well have stayed at home.

Also infuriating that I fell asleep at the end of the third quarter, and missed basically all of the excitement.

The reason why is because although you need 60 yards for a TD, you would only need 30 to get in FG range. Yes, more likely than not it's a 5 yard gain, not twenty and regulation ends in a whimper however the hope is that with the draw play creating hole opportunities, Charles could break one and avoid overtime altogether. Manning has shown that he could take one right down the field on the defense, you can't lose a game at home without giving your offense the chance to do anything about it.

It's not a bad decision by Reid, it's Charles doing a poor job holding onto the ball.

monkeystyxx · 09-18-2015, 06:16 PM

Ah yeah, fair point, I completely forgot about field goals.

Cobra Mgr · 09-18-2015, 08:14 PM

Do we really think the best way to get downfield quickly is a handoff?

Reid ran the ball because he didn't think it was likely they could do anything in 36 secs & might toss a pick. The best solution to that dilemma is to kneel down. You protect the ball & run out the clock. It's simple.

The last 3 weeks of football that counts has seen Carrol pass the ball, Coughlin pass the ball & Reid hand off the ball. All simple calls that any 8 yr old could make. Yet these veteran coaches somehow get the most basic strategy screwed up. It used to be coaches had "chapter" in their playbook for under 2:00 scenarios. Do they do that anymore?

MorseMoose · 09-18-2015, 09:03 PM

I feel the ultimate warriors would disobey their coaches in these situations. Realize that they're the ones that have to make the play. The best quarterbacks would never have let some of these plays happen.

Ragnar · 09-18-2015, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Do we really think the best way to get downfield quickly is a handoff?

Reid ran the ball because he didn't think it was likely they could do anything in 36 secs & might toss a pick. The best solution to that dilemma is to kneel down. You protect the ball & run out the clock. It's simple.

No doubt about it. No way he is trying for a FG. No way are they getting between 45-50 yards starting off with a run play and 1 timeout with around 30 seconds left. I highly doubt that was what the coach was thinking.

09-17-2015, 11:51 PM	#1
Cobra Mgr Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Parts unknown Posts: 6,364	Den @ KC ending 2 people to fuss at............. There is absolutely no excuse for Jamaal Charles not securing the football. None. What. So. Ever. But if you're going to just hand the ball off, why do that instead of just kneeling & going into OT? Andy Reid called an oxymoron. A risky conservative play. HOLY Joe Pisarcik, Batman! Last edited by Cobra Mgr; 09-17-2015 at 11:53 PM.

09-18-2015, 09:27 AM	#3
Airdrop01 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lenexa, KS / Wilson, WY Posts: 1,354	I was at that game. (And pretty much every one). How it was a game when Chiefs had five turnovers is astonishing. But, I don't agree that the run was a bad call. Obviously you can take a knee. But it was 36 seconds left. One timeout, and that play call almost semi-regularly gets 20 yards. Jamaal wasn't being careless with the ball, but he did get it stripped, obviously. It was a horrible way to lose a game. Crushing. But the Chiefs had 9 penalties, more false starts than Denver (I think) and a boatload of other missed opportunities to salt that one away after going up 14-0. It is far and away the weirdest ending I've seen in person....it tops the one where Phillip Rivers fumbled the kneel down snap and Chiefs recovered it and won a few years ago. Anyway, I am fine with that call. Other things not so much....like the stupid Maclin reverses and option passes they ran a few times in the red zone....36 seconds is easily enough time if that play busts to get a long FG try with that, a time out, and a couple of catch and runs, on conventional plays, which they were getting all night. The fumble earlier down by our own goal line he had was far worse. But, it is never one play in football. For example, before the Smith INT to Talib (not the Chris Harris one, I have no idea what that even was and it was right in front of me) Maclin had a ball thrown perfectly, right into his hands, and he just dropped it. It would have been good for 15 or 80 if he didn't fall down after catching it. Very next play is the pick. It is never one thing with football...pretty much,,maybe besides hockey, the ultimate team sport (though baseball is still my favorite). Anyway, it was obviously huge; Jamaal knows it, etc. I just don't agree that you should be afraid, at home in the NFL, to try to win with 36 seconds left rather than take a knee and go to OT against one of the best QBs in history who while not himself, was playing very well at that moment. Moreso when you consider that you're handing the ball to a deserving pro bowl player who hasn't fumbled twice in a game in almost 100 games (I looked that one up this morning). People on the radio at 1:30 a.m. when I was driving home complaining about that call have no idea how the offense works and I think that play had the best chance of getting them in position to run two more pass plays and kick the FG. If you don't have Charles I agree you'd take a knee. But you do and that call is fine because of it. Side note...my buddies from Denver have come every year for 19 years now for that game and I go out there for the one there. Even they felt bad for me driving home. Gut punch. Last edited by Airdrop01; 09-18-2015 at 09:33 AM.

09-18-2015, 12:13 PM	#6
monkeystyxx Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 293	From my perspective as a new football fan from outside the US, it seemed pretty dumb. Even if Charles does get 20 yards, which isn't entirely unlikely admittedly, what then? Now you've got 20 seconds left and still 60 yards to go. Sure, it might happen for you, similar happened for Dallas on Sunday. But the percentages are probably not in your favour. Take a knee, go into overtime. Then you've got far more time and, given how Manning was throwing, probably plenty of opportunities. Having said all that, I'm not an NFL coach, and I wasn't there. Still, fantastic ending for a neutral, especially one who doesn't particularly like sports teams based in KC. Was definitely a game of Defence vs. Defence, where the offenses might as well have stayed at home. Also infuriating that I fell asleep at the end of the third quarter, and missed basically all of the excitement. Last edited by monkeystyxx; 09-18-2015 at 12:30 PM.

09-18-2015, 12:57 PM	#7
Rizon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691 Posts: 2,363	An Andy Reid coached team falling apart at the end? I don't believe it at all, totally staged. __________________ JML MILKSHAKES

09-18-2015, 12:36 AM	#2
Ragnar Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,009	I am puzzled by that call as well. From your own 20 with just over 30 seconds left with one timeout and he runs the ball? Would they have called that play with a 4 point lead? Probably not. But are the two situations that much different if you're going to run the ball? I guess it was just a simple handoff.

09-18-2015, 09:30 AM	#4
Jason Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 3,827 Blog Entries: 3	Andy Reid is an idiot. Love, Philadelphia Eagles fans.

09-18-2015, 09:38 AM	#5
Airdrop01 All Star Starter Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lenexa, KS / Wilson, WY Posts: 1,354	Also, Jamell Fleming basically got roasted every play...he had a really....REALLY...bad game.

09-18-2015, 06:16 PM	#9
monkeystyxx Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 293	Ah yeah, fair point, I completely forgot about field goals.

09-18-2015, 08:14 PM	#10
Cobra Mgr Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Parts unknown Posts: 6,364	Do we really think the best way to get downfield quickly is a handoff? Reid ran the ball because he didn't think it was likely they could do anything in 36 secs & might toss a pick. The best solution to that dilemma is to kneel down. You protect the ball & run out the clock. It's simple. The last 3 weeks of football that counts has seen Carrol pass the ball, Coughlin pass the ball & Reid hand off the ball. All simple calls that any 8 yr old could make. Yet these veteran coaches somehow get the most basic strategy screwed up. It used to be coaches had "chapter" in their playbook for under 2:00 scenarios. Do they do that anymore?

09-18-2015, 09:03 PM	#11
MorseMoose Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 6,023 Blog Entries: 4 Infractions: 1/1 (1)	I feel the ultimate warriors would disobey their coaches in these situations. Realize that they're the ones that have to make the play. The best quarterbacks would never have let some of these plays happen.