Lineup preferences

stannis · 01-08-2013, 11:36 AM

(First: Longtime player of OOTP [since about version 5], but entirely new to the forums. Please forgive me if I've missed a sticky/FAQ thread on this subject; I found a few related threads though the Search but none that directly answered my question without needing gravedigging.

Second: I am well aware that lineup selection is not a significant component of baseball strategy, and that sabermetric projections generally indicate the very worst possible lineups only having a marginally lower production of wins than the very best, ceteris paribus. So I acknowledge my concern with this problem is largely cosmetic.)

Is there any way of changing the defaults of the AI with regards to batting lineup? I have tried:
- toggling between "Traditional" and "Sabermetric" under League Options, but there appears to be little difference in how these actually pan out
- requiring me as manager to set all lineups, rather than the bench coach - but this still frequently required user intervention on my part, which became repetitive; nor (obviously) did it do anything about all the other teams in the league, who continued to stick to the AI lineup preferences, something that irks me as I am less interested in "winning" than I am in getting interesting league play
- changing various other League Options including cycling through different historical eras, turning off Scouting, changing team preferences manually in commissioner mode, none of which have seemed to result in many changes

But whatever I do, the AI seems resolutely set on the following:
- a fast leadoff hitter, sometimes even preferring a fast leadoff man with lesser chance of getting on base to a slower player more likely to get on base
- using the best overall hitters at 3 and 4, never at 1 or 2
- having the pitcher bat last
- otherwise putting the weakest hitter at 9
These AI preferences have persisted through the numerous versions of OOTP I have played, I should note, so it is not a one-off issue.

Overlooking for the moment my subjective use of terms such as "best overall hitters", etc., I find these lineup choices quite frustrating. I realize that for Historical play they may accurately reflect the prejudices of former managers (and even some current managers, such as - notoriously - Dusty Baker, who wouldn't want his leadoff man clogging up the bases...); but when not playing online leagues, and just simming for myself, I mostly use the game for Fictional play.

Would there be a way of changing the defaults of the game such that pitchers would routinely bat at 7 or 8? Such that Contact/Eye would be more highly rated than Speed/Steal in picking a leadoff man? Such that the highest OPS hitters were likely to bat at 2, rather than some slap hitting bunter more likely to ground my leadoff man into a forceout than gain a "productive out" (pfffffft...)?

Any help gratefully appreciated, including directing me to obvious FAQs or help notes that I have somehow overlooked, for which I apologise in advance.

SteveP · 01-08-2013, 12:34 PM

If you make yourself commissioner, there is a league function that allows you to control all the teams in the league. That increases your workload and slows down your ability to play thru a season. But people do that. There is no way to program the AI to implement that level of micromanagement on your behalf.

I think the design philosophy of the game is to have the AI manage the various teams in some reasonably sensible way, while allowing you to experiment using your own team, with whatever variations and innovations you choose.

Hope that helps.

stannis · 01-08-2013, 01:18 PM

Part of the reason I asked about this - I forgot to mention this in the OP - was due to a problem with a player. He seemed an outstanding leadoff hitter candidate, with absolutely fantastic on base numbers, but limited power and a low strikeout rate. However, his "player expectations" were "Middle of the lineup", which meant starting him at 1 or 2 made him become steadily more angry (by the end of the season his morale was so low he would not accept a new contract despite having good morale in all other aspects - transactions, player and team performances, etc.). I didn't want to edit him or turn off the Morale system, so I had to let him go, where another team signed him, put him at #3 (he seemed very happy about this) and promptly saw him lead the league in both walks and GIDP while not even making it to the home run leaderboard. I understand that players can be prima donnas (though the Scouting Report suggested this particular player was actually a good team man), but it was frustrating that someone so obviously suited to a leadoff role would have his relationship with a Championship winning team break down in a year he led the League in VORP, just because of a totally unrealistic lineup expectation!

Anyway, thank you for answering SteveP; I had suspected that there wasn't any way to change the AI in that way but wanted confirmation.

SteveP · 01-08-2013, 05:23 PM

I think that the reason for having the morale system in the game is partly to create just such issues for you as a GM/manager. IRL, they have to deal with baseball players who are human with human foibles, including stronger or weaker professionalism. That's hard to simulate in a game like this, but it does give you the challenge of fitting square pegs into round holes. Ultimately that guy may end with a short career or just bouncing around from team to team, regardless of whether you have him or the AI does.

stannis · 01-09-2013, 09:30 AM

Indeed your instincts are correct: that is exactly what happened with this particular player. Although I never traded for him again I kept my eye on him to see how he progressed, and he played for a long time in a HOF career in which he ended up breaking up the all time walks drawn record...but he played for, I think, seven different teams, and never once renewed a contract with the same team - including more twice helping win the World Series and then immediately leaving! Clearly, lineup position was serious business for him.

Halara · 01-09-2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stannis

Clearly, lineup position was serious business for him.

It's the #3's and #4's that the kids lineup to buy the jerseys for. Big egos, you have to wonder where the guy would be if his managers along the way didn't recognize his top of the lineup potential. He probably didn't thank any of them for his trip to The Hall.

01-08-2013, 11:36 AM	#1
stannis Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: UK Posts: 35	Lineup preferences (First: Longtime player of OOTP [since about version 5], but entirely new to the forums. Please forgive me if I've missed a sticky/FAQ thread on this subject; I found a few related threads though the Search but none that directly answered my question without needing gravedigging. Second: I am well aware that lineup selection is not a significant component of baseball strategy, and that sabermetric projections generally indicate the very worst possible lineups only having a marginally lower production of wins than the very best, ceteris paribus. So I acknowledge my concern with this problem is largely cosmetic.) Is there any way of changing the defaults of the AI with regards to batting lineup? I have tried: - toggling between "Traditional" and "Sabermetric" under League Options, but there appears to be little difference in how these actually pan out - requiring me as manager to set all lineups, rather than the bench coach - but this still frequently required user intervention on my part, which became repetitive; nor (obviously) did it do anything about all the other teams in the league, who continued to stick to the AI lineup preferences, something that irks me as I am less interested in "winning" than I am in getting interesting league play - changing various other League Options including cycling through different historical eras, turning off Scouting, changing team preferences manually in commissioner mode, none of which have seemed to result in many changes But whatever I do, the AI seems resolutely set on the following: - a fast leadoff hitter, sometimes even preferring a fast leadoff man with lesser chance of getting on base to a slower player more likely to get on base - using the best overall hitters at 3 and 4, never at 1 or 2 - having the pitcher bat last - otherwise putting the weakest hitter at 9 These AI preferences have persisted through the numerous versions of OOTP I have played, I should note, so it is not a one-off issue. Overlooking for the moment my subjective use of terms such as "best overall hitters", etc., I find these lineup choices quite frustrating. I realize that for Historical play they may accurately reflect the prejudices of former managers (and even some current managers, such as - notoriously - Dusty Baker, who wouldn't want his leadoff man clogging up the bases...); but when not playing online leagues, and just simming for myself, I mostly use the game for Fictional play. Would there be a way of changing the defaults of the game such that pitchers would routinely bat at 7 or 8? Such that Contact/Eye would be more highly rated than Speed/Steal in picking a leadoff man? Such that the highest OPS hitters were likely to bat at 2, rather than some slap hitting bunter more likely to ground my leadoff man into a forceout than gain a "productive out" (pfffffft...)? Any help gratefully appreciated, including directing me to obvious FAQs or help notes that I have somehow overlooked, for which I apologise in advance. Last edited by stannis; 01-08-2013 at 11:37 AM. Reason: Speeling errur

01-08-2013, 12:34 PM	#2
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,109	If you make yourself commissioner, there is a league function that allows you to control all the teams in the league. That increases your workload and slows down your ability to play thru a season. But people do that. There is no way to program the AI to implement that level of micromanagement on your behalf. I think the design philosophy of the game is to have the AI manage the various teams in some reasonably sensible way, while allowing you to experiment using your own team, with whatever variations and innovations you choose. Hope that helps.

01-08-2013, 01:18 PM	#3
stannis Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: UK Posts: 35	Part of the reason I asked about this - I forgot to mention this in the OP - was due to a problem with a player. He seemed an outstanding leadoff hitter candidate, with absolutely fantastic on base numbers, but limited power and a low strikeout rate. However, his "player expectations" were "Middle of the lineup", which meant starting him at 1 or 2 made him become steadily more angry (by the end of the season his morale was so low he would not accept a new contract despite having good morale in all other aspects - transactions, player and team performances, etc.). I didn't want to edit him or turn off the Morale system, so I had to let him go, where another team signed him, put him at #3 (he seemed very happy about this) and promptly saw him lead the league in both walks and GIDP while not even making it to the home run leaderboard. I understand that players can be prima donnas (though the Scouting Report suggested this particular player was actually a good team man), but it was frustrating that someone so obviously suited to a leadoff role would have his relationship with a Championship winning team break down in a year he led the League in VORP, just because of a totally unrealistic lineup expectation! Anyway, thank you for answering SteveP; I had suspected that there wasn't any way to change the AI in that way but wanted confirmation.

01-08-2013, 05:23 PM	#4
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,109	I think that the reason for having the morale system in the game is partly to create just such issues for you as a GM/manager. IRL, they have to deal with baseball players who are human with human foibles, including stronger or weaker professionalism. That's hard to simulate in a game like this, but it does give you the challenge of fitting square pegs into round holes. Ultimately that guy may end with a short career or just bouncing around from team to team, regardless of whether you have him or the AI does.

01-09-2013, 09:30 AM	#5
stannis Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: UK Posts: 35	Indeed your instincts are correct: that is exactly what happened with this particular player. Although I never traded for him again I kept my eye on him to see how he progressed, and he played for a long time in a HOF career in which he ended up breaking up the all time walks drawn record...but he played for, I think, seven different teams, and never once renewed a contract with the same team - including more twice helping win the World Series and then immediately leaving! Clearly, lineup position was serious business for him.