What is actually happening when you extend a pre-arbitration player 1 year?

FlaviusFlav · 10-22-2019, 08:49 AM

Are you negotiating the contract for their first arbitration year, or are you offering them more than the mlb minimum for a pre-arb year just to be nice?

BIG17EASY · 10-22-2019, 08:55 AM

I've never actually tried this. If he's pre-arbitration, why would you offer him a one-year extension? You're already guaranteed that his contract will renew. You're essentially giving him a raise that's not necessary. You'd be better off offering a multi-year extension to buy out some of the arbitration years at a salary lower than you think he'd get through arbitration.

WIUPIKE · 10-22-2019, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I've never actually tried this. If he's pre-arbitration, why would you offer him a one-year extension? You're already guaranteed that his contract will renew. You're essentially giving him a raise that's not necessary. You'd be better off offering a multi-year extension to buy out some of the arbitration years at a salary lower than you think he'd get through arbitration.

This. But also if he is a popular player in your town it may help raise fan interest by doing this but it would be a trade off of the delta between the salary you give the player vs the league min.

FlaviusFlav · 10-22-2019, 10:39 AM

Well the most recent time I tried, which inspired this question, he would only talk about a one year contract.

Why would I? I guess it depends on the game mechanics.

If I'm not mistaken teams will occasionally give players a raise over what they are required to as some token show of appreciation (presumably hoping it comes back to them when it's time to negotiate a real contract)

For example Mike Trout in 2014? I'm pretty sure that $1M contract was when he was still eligible to be making the minimum.

If that's all one of these 1 year pre-arbitration contract's would be, does the game engine take into account that you given "good will" raises in future negotiations, or otherwise assign some positive value to previously signed contracts with the same team/owner so that it would actually benefit you in some way?

BIG17EASY · 10-22-2019, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlaviusFlav

If I'm not mistaken teams will occasionally give players a raise over what they are required to as some token show of appreciation (presumably hoping it comes back to them when it's time to negotiate a real contract)

For example Mike Trout in 2014? I'm pretty sure that $1M contract was when he was still eligible to be making the minimum.

If that's all one of these 1 year pre-arbitration contract's would be, does the game engine take into account that you given "good will" raises in future negotiations, or otherwise assign some positive value to previously signed contracts with the same team/owner so that it would actually benefit you in some way?

The contract Mike Trout signed in 2014 for $1 million with a $5 million bonus was basically a "good faith" contract signed on Feb. 26 as they negotiated a longer deal, which he signed on March 28 for six years and $144 million that bought out all of his arbitration years, plus three years of free agency. So while it was two different contracts, it was essentially a seven-year, $150 million dollar agreement in the end.

sabrtoothtiger · 10-23-2019, 10:36 AM

i've done this before, giving a small bump in salary 30-50,000 and put in performance bonuses for players with high greed thinking it may help them perform better.

old fat bald guy · 10-23-2019, 05:26 PM

I'm biding my time before I try something akin to this, late in the current season. I've got a second-year pitcher signed as a veteran coming over from Japan, so he's got a $5.5 million contract but it's automatic renewal. He's been injured since July (maybe early August) of the first season and won't be back until July of the third season, if then. There's no way I'm letting that $5.5 million renewal happen, but maybe he'll know that salary isn't going to happen, with my team or anybody's. He was pretty good before he got hurt.

NoOne · 10-23-2019, 09:44 PM

i see it as a bonus, if they are supremely talented and interested in long-term contracts fairly early on. i don't know about year 1, though. if it was an older player, relative to the type i speak of, it's possible though.

otherwise, you string him along until you have a better option available. trading anything young with some talent is always a boon.

If a supremely talented guy is 24-25, and i know he's the type that will demand a max year contract or anywhere near, i'd rather do that at 24 than 28+. if he's a keeper and the price isn't too much, of course yes.

the initial years you can keep at ~minumum, and it won't hurt the contract -- including other club control years being roughly what he'll recieve in arbitration not being a problem. then, you see a big jump to market value, or what they think they are worth if selfish, greedy, and talented.

anyway, if familiar with your league and what that quality of player is likely to receive, you can make some quick math to determine if it is a good idea or a bad idea. it always has to add up.. it's not a always yes or always no situation simply if they offer at any service time accrued and age. it's always the same logical process to determine if it is good or not.

you don't have to keep it in that escalating pay scale, either. if it averages out, it will most likely be a similar positive response, otherwise.

you should look into frontloading contracts anytime you have a budget surplus. as your salaries report shows an approaching engorged budget, you switch gears ~3 years before that, but depends on severity of context and age distribution on team etc. ground up, fact-based, decision making. That salaries page is essential to planning. you don't even have to keep track of 25 salaries over 10 years. it does it for you.

it's going to cost you the same no matter what if you make up your mind to keep a player. might as well structure it in a way that helps your team the most, instead of just doing what everyone else does in RL. they should do it there, too. especially a league with guaranteed contracts. the player won't get sc%wed over.

10-22-2019, 08:49 AM	#1
FlaviusFlav Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 147	What is actually happening when you extend a pre-arbitration player 1 year? Are you negotiating the contract for their first arbitration year, or are you offering them more than the mlb minimum for a pre-arb year just to be nice? __________________

10-22-2019, 08:55 AM	#2
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	I've never actually tried this. If he's pre-arbitration, why would you offer him a one-year extension? You're already guaranteed that his contract will renew. You're essentially giving him a raise that's not necessary. You'd be better off offering a multi-year extension to buy out some of the arbitration years at a salary lower than you think he'd get through arbitration. Last edited by BIG17EASY; 10-22-2019 at 08:57 AM.

10-22-2019, 10:39 AM	#4
FlaviusFlav Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 147	Well the most recent time I tried, which inspired this question, he would only talk about a one year contract. Why would I? I guess it depends on the game mechanics. If I'm not mistaken teams will occasionally give players a raise over what they are required to as some token show of appreciation (presumably hoping it comes back to them when it's time to negotiate a real contract) For example Mike Trout in 2014? I'm pretty sure that $1M contract was when he was still eligible to be making the minimum. If that's all one of these 1 year pre-arbitration contract's would be, does the game engine take into account that you given "good will" raises in future negotiations, or otherwise assign some positive value to previously signed contracts with the same team/owner so that it would actually benefit you in some way? __________________

10-23-2019, 10:36 AM	#6
sabrtoothtiger Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 137	i've done this before, giving a small bump in salary 30-50,000 and put in performance bonuses for players with high greed thinking it may help them perform better. __________________ Check out my Reds Franchise on YouTube

10-23-2019, 09:44 PM	#8
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	i see it as a bonus, if they are supremely talented and interested in long-term contracts fairly early on. i don't know about year 1, though. if it was an older player, relative to the type i speak of, it's possible though. otherwise, you string him along until you have a better option available. trading anything young with some talent is always a boon. If a supremely talented guy is 24-25, and i know he's the type that will demand a max year contract or anywhere near, i'd rather do that at 24 than 28+. if he's a keeper and the price isn't too much, of course yes. the initial years you can keep at ~minumum, and it won't hurt the contract -- including other club control years being roughly what he'll recieve in arbitration not being a problem. then, you see a big jump to market value, or what they think they are worth if selfish, greedy, and talented. anyway, if familiar with your league and what that quality of player is likely to receive, you can make some quick math to determine if it is a good idea or a bad idea. it always has to add up.. it's not a always yes or always no situation simply if they offer at any service time accrued and age. it's always the same logical process to determine if it is good or not. you don't have to keep it in that escalating pay scale, either. if it averages out, it will most likely be a similar positive response, otherwise. you should look into frontloading contracts anytime you have a budget surplus. as your salaries report shows an approaching engorged budget, you switch gears ~3 years before that, but depends on severity of context and age distribution on team etc. ground up, fact-based, decision making. That salaries page is essential to planning. you don't even have to keep track of 25 salaries over 10 years. it does it for you. it's going to cost you the same no matter what if you make up your mind to keep a player. might as well structure it in a way that helps your team the most, instead of just doing what everyone else does in RL. they should do it there, too. especially a league with guaranteed contracts. the player won't get sc%wed over. Last edited by NoOne; 10-23-2019 at 09:49 PM.

10-23-2019, 05:26 PM	#7
old fat bald guy Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 220	I'm biding my time before I try something akin to this, late in the current season. I've got a second-year pitcher signed as a veteran coming over from Japan, so he's got a $5.5 million contract but it's automatic renewal. He's been injured since July (maybe early August) of the first season and won't be back until July of the third season, if then. There's no way I'm letting that $5.5 million renewal happen, but maybe he'll know that salary isn't going to happen, with my team or anybody's. He was pretty good before he got hurt.