Been away for a while - have some questions about OOTP12

silentrob · 07-14-2011, 02:21 PM

Haven't been to the board for a while, or updated my version of the game for a couple years but thinking about doing so. But I'd like to get a little feedback if anyone would generously provide some on a few things.

I primarily play historical leagues, which is why I've posted in this part of the forum. But I'm wondering how realistically these things work in 12:

1. Career paths of pitchers. In the latest version I have (OOTP9) there seemed to be a large number of "flame-out" pitchers who started with good ratings, were terrific players for a few years, but all of a sudden just dropped off the table and within 2 years weren't even good enough to be in the majors anymore. How does this play in 12?

2. Popularity of pitchers. There were many guys with "unknown" popularity as free agents but after you signed them, all of a sudden they were practically the most popular guy on your team.

3. Relief pitchers in arbitration. In 9, average relief pitchers often got the same salary in arbitration as top hitters.

Thanks again in advance if anyone can speak to their experiences.

Charlie Hough · 07-16-2011, 07:31 PM

Wow. OOTP is light years ahead of what it was with version 9. I really think you might as well upgrade. OOTP11 was considered to be the best and most stable version to date, and a lot of issues with career arcs, financials, and historical realism have been cleared up. Historical play has improved greatly over the past few versions.

I would strongly encourage you to buy the new version. Just keep in mind that there are quite a few new options and settings compared to what you have available now, so you might want to take your time and go through the advanced options setup to make sure your game is set up the way you like.

silentrob · 07-16-2011, 08:55 PM

Thanks for this quality feedback, I've been leaning towards upgrading anyway (but when you are just out of college, sometimes you can't upgrade every year even though you'd like to!) and this is good to hear. I mostly just play historical, and if that has been improved (despite these problems it was still pretty good before) then it is probably worth.

Now if only Marcus & co. would offer the game with a normalized database for historical leagues, that would really be something.

captaincarl · 07-17-2011, 05:44 AM

I think that the best option in ootp 12 is the ability to now play the game "as played". This allows we historical replay people to play the season closer to RL. The schedule that you will use will be the same as it ended up, including rescheduled double headers due to rain outs. The "as played" feature also will give all teams the exact same starting lineup and starting pitcher on the actual day that they used in RL and will also perform the MLB transactions when they actually occurred.

Charlie Hough · 07-17-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by silentrob

Now if only Marcus & co. would offer the game with a normalized database for historical leagues, that would really be something.

Do you mean a database based on neutralized stats? That's already in place and has been for a while. You have the option to play with either actual stats or neutralized as the basis for player ratings.

But the historical accuracy has become so good with the existing factors and league totals modeling that you almost don't even need the neutralized stats anymore. The historical stat results have been really impressive with this version, and we have some hardcore gamers that really put this stuff to the test.

Kemp · 07-18-2011, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Do you mean a database based on neutralized stats? That's already in place and has been for a while. You have the option to play with either actual stats or neutralized as the basis for player ratings.

But the historical accuracy has become so good with the existing factors and league totals modeling that you almost don't even need the neutralized stats anymore. The historical stat results have been really impressive with this version, and we have some hardcore gamers that really put this stuff to the test.

Hello. I've been away for a few versions and I've just recently started reading through these threads. Could you explain what you mean with this? I've always enjoyed playing historical seasons but have always tried to emulate 1980's style stats. That is, I like using deadball teams but in a 1980's statistical setting.

As such, I'm trying to decide the best way to do this with the most recent OOTP version. What exactly do you mean with your second paragraph here?

Thanks!

Charlie Hough · 07-18-2011, 09:25 AM

The continuous improvement of the historical experience in OOTP has virtually eliminated the need or desire for the neutralized database IMO. Its only remaining advantage is that the neutralized database also fills in missing seasons for players who missed years in the minors, in the military, etc. But I don't like that aspect of it, because the stats that are used to fill in those years are obviously not stats that were compiled in real life.

The game now does such a tremendous job with statistical accuracy that you can simply use the standard database, and players perform extremely realistically, even if they are traded or otherwise end up in a different ballpark with different factors. The game has ballpark factors included, and this, combined with the game engine, means a player moving from Coors Field to Busch Stadium in the 1990's will hit fewer home runs and perform realistically.

Historical results were beta tested extensively, and many long-term simulations were done with all sorts of settings and conditions. The results were pretty remarkable. There were very few outliers and anomalies in the statistics, even across a full century of baseball. Of course, it can also help to use a 1-year recalc period along with actual lineups and transactions, which are now available in the game. But even with 3-year recalc, player performances tend to be very realistic on a league-wide basis.

In other words, you end up with top hitters posting batting averages very similar to the real life leaders for historical seasons. Home run totals are realistic. Most statistics are quite accurate on a macro level and even for individual players, particularly if you use the options to make OOTP more like a replay engine.

07-14-2011, 02:21 PM	#1
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	Been away for a while - have some questions about OOTP12 Haven't been to the board for a while, or updated my version of the game for a couple years but thinking about doing so. But I'd like to get a little feedback if anyone would generously provide some on a few things. I primarily play historical leagues, which is why I've posted in this part of the forum. But I'm wondering how realistically these things work in 12: 1. Career paths of pitchers. In the latest version I have (OOTP9) there seemed to be a large number of "flame-out" pitchers who started with good ratings, were terrific players for a few years, but all of a sudden just dropped off the table and within 2 years weren't even good enough to be in the majors anymore. How does this play in 12? 2. Popularity of pitchers. There were many guys with "unknown" popularity as free agents but after you signed them, all of a sudden they were practically the most popular guy on your team. 3. Relief pitchers in arbitration. In 9, average relief pitchers often got the same salary in arbitration as top hitters. Thanks again in advance if anyone can speak to their experiences.

07-17-2011, 05:44 AM	#4
captaincarl Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Location: Barrington, RI Posts: 4,362	I think that the best option in ootp 12 is the ability to now play the game "as played". This allows we historical replay people to play the season closer to RL. The schedule that you will use will be the same as it ended up, including rescheduled double headers due to rain outs. The "as played" feature also will give all teams the exact same starting lineup and starting pitcher on the actual day that they used in RL and will also perform the MLB transactions when they actually occurred. Last edited by captaincarl; 07-17-2011 at 05:46 AM.

07-16-2011, 07:31 PM	#2
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,625	Wow. OOTP is light years ahead of what it was with version 9. I really think you might as well upgrade. OOTP11 was considered to be the best and most stable version to date, and a lot of issues with career arcs, financials, and historical realism have been cleared up. Historical play has improved greatly over the past few versions. I would strongly encourage you to buy the new version. Just keep in mind that there are quite a few new options and settings compared to what you have available now, so you might want to take your time and go through the advanced options setup to make sure your game is set up the way you like.

07-16-2011, 08:55 PM	#3
silentrob Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kalispell, MT Posts: 228	Thanks for this quality feedback, I've been leaning towards upgrading anyway (but when you are just out of college, sometimes you can't upgrade every year even though you'd like to!) and this is good to hear. I mostly just play historical, and if that has been improved (despite these problems it was still pretty good before) then it is probably worth. Now if only Marcus & co. would offer the game with a normalized database for historical leagues, that would really be something.

07-18-2011, 09:25 AM	#7
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,625	The continuous improvement of the historical experience in OOTP has virtually eliminated the need or desire for the neutralized database IMO. Its only remaining advantage is that the neutralized database also fills in missing seasons for players who missed years in the minors, in the military, etc. But I don't like that aspect of it, because the stats that are used to fill in those years are obviously not stats that were compiled in real life. The game now does such a tremendous job with statistical accuracy that you can simply use the standard database, and players perform extremely realistically, even if they are traded or otherwise end up in a different ballpark with different factors. The game has ballpark factors included, and this, combined with the game engine, means a player moving from Coors Field to Busch Stadium in the 1990's will hit fewer home runs and perform realistically. Historical results were beta tested extensively, and many long-term simulations were done with all sorts of settings and conditions. The results were pretty remarkable. There were very few outliers and anomalies in the statistics, even across a full century of baseball. Of course, it can also help to use a 1-year recalc period along with actual lineups and transactions, which are now available in the game. But even with 3-year recalc, player performances tend to be very realistic on a league-wide basis. In other words, you end up with top hitters posting batting averages very similar to the real life leaders for historical seasons. Home run totals are realistic. Most statistics are quite accurate on a macro level and even for individual players, particularly if you use the options to make OOTP more like a replay engine.