Does Catcher Ability Influence Pitcher Production?

polydamas · 08-15-2021, 09:23 PM

IRL, catcher have a huge influence on the pitching staff because they are the ones calling the game. Is this in the game at all? To what extent? Am I hamstringing my pitchers by having subpar catchers?

BirdWatcher · 08-15-2021, 09:30 PM

From everything I have seen here and elsewhere regarding OOTP, and in my own experience with the game, catcher ability plays a fairly significant role in helping your pitching staff to have better results.

I know that there are several YouTube videos on this subject which point strongly towards this conclusion. I know this is a running theme in many of the videos by Sgt. Mushroom and I believe you will also find one by Alex Murray on this subject.

But yes, I believe that if you don't have gifted defensive catchers (particularly catcher ability but arm isn't insignificant either, particularly depending upon the offensive environment of your save) you are doing a disservice to your pitching staff.

Miamikb2001 · 08-15-2021, 09:41 PM

Absolutely unequivocally makes a huge difference especially if he’s rated an 80.Arm is important too but for purely helping your pitchers I would say you definitely want your catcher to be minimum 60 preferably 70 or above just my two cents.I have played at out at least a couple thousand games in the past 4 years so
Lots of experience with this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cbbl · 08-16-2021, 09:43 AM

Yep, it does. And you can see the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of a catcher by looking at his CERA (Catcher's ERA). You'll find it under the basic Fielding Stats. You can compare catchers on a team here by looking at a catcher's ERA versus the team ERA.

Take for example this team:

Team ERA = 3.95

Catcher #1 CERA = 3.16
Catcher #2 CERA = 4.85
Catcher #3 CERA = 4.56

From this single statistic, it can be reasonably inferred that catcher #1 calls the best game and is primarily responsible for keeping the team ERA below 4.00.

Of course, that's only a surface level picture and assumes that all catchers catch all pitchers. If you have specific pitcher-catcher relationships, you'd have to consider those also. In my example, perhaps Catcher #2 is actually a really good game caller but gets paired up with the weakest pitchers on the team.

Unfortunately OOTP doesn't have a correlating split that shows how a particular pitcher does when being caught by a particular catcher.

koohead · 08-17-2021, 10:26 AM

take this one step further...has anyone noticed/tracked a change in pitching staff performance when you change your catcher? For example, I had an All-Star catcher that was my starter for 4 years. 120-130 starts every year. pitching staff did great. I let him go in Free Agency because I had a prospect ready in Triple A who I thought was equal in terms of ability and arm and all that. My entire pitching staff (starters, relievers, closer) had a noticeable drop in performance. half to a full run higher in ERA, walks went up, BAPIP went up. For the first half of the year, it was worse...by the end of the year things seemed to level out.
So was this just a one off? or is there something to the catcher influence on a staff's overall performance?

brotherblues · 08-19-2021, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koohead

take this one step further...has anyone noticed/tracked a change in pitching staff performance when you change your catcher? For example, I had an All-Star catcher that was my starter for 4 years. 120-130 starts every year. pitching staff did great. I let him go in Free Agency because I had a prospect ready in Triple A who I thought was equal in terms of ability and arm and all that. My entire pitching staff (starters, relievers, closer) had a noticeable drop in performance. half to a full run higher in ERA, walks went up, BAPIP went up. For the first half of the year, it was worse...by the end of the year things seemed to level out.
So was this just a one off? or is there something to the catcher influence on a staff's overall performance?

The only valid comparison would be to run the same season several times with each catcher. With injuries off.

cbbl · 08-19-2021, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotherblues

The only valid comparison would be to run the same season several times with each catcher. With injuries off.

Yea, this would do it. Set "Prevent AI from making roster moves" also to keep variables the same. (prevent call ups, signings, etc.)

BBGiovanni · 08-19-2021, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brotherblues

The only valid comparison would be to run the same season several times with each catcher. With injuries off.

I'm pretty sure there's been a thread about that but sorry I don't remember enough to search for it. And as noted above the Sgt. Mushroom video shows his work IIRC.

Garlon · 08-21-2021, 10:49 AM

This has been adjusted since OOTP21. The catcher influence is less in historical games now than in fictional leagues. It may have been adjusted for fictional leagues too though. Markus mentioned that he made this adjustment in an interview he did with Scott Braun before release. The catcher ability was too strong previously and was essentially an exploit and it did not represent the proper defensive impact they should have from framing pitches.

One Post Wonder · 08-23-2021, 12:06 AM

It makes a huge difference. I value catcher ability more highly than that of any other rating at any other position. I will not play anyone there whose rating isn't blue, even if that means I have to put a guy who hits like a pitcher in that spot, or a guy with little to no arm.

I hadn't noticed this being nerfed, but I'll have to start looking more closely at CERA's as I play. It will take a lot to get out of the habit of playing top defensive guys there though.

Mancandy · 08-23-2021, 06:01 AM

Yeah, all I ever really look at with catchers is their defensive ratings. The only thing I care about offensively is making sure I move them to a different position if they’re great hitters. It’s wild to me that MLB teams keep guys like Joe Mauer and Buster Posey at catcher.

On the topic of catchers, I’ve always thought it’d be cool if OOTP had a chemistry or experience tracker for pitcher/catcher combos, like FHM has with linemates. (Hopefully no OOTP developers take personal offense to this and scream about how OOTP isn’t like FHM and they shouldn’t be compared, like the reverse happens anytime somebody suggests something from OOTP be put in FHM. But the OOTP boards seem to be run by adults, so I don’t expect it to be an issue.)

billyray1984 · 08-24-2021, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancandy

Yeah, all I ever really look at with catchers is their defensive ratings. The only thing I care about offensively is making sure I move them to a different position if they’re great hitters. It’s wild to me that MLB teams keep guys like Joe Mauer and Buster Posey at catcher.

A catcher's value to the team defensively is imho much harder to quantify than any other position player since there is a lot of intangibles (prefenrence of catcher from pitcher, in-game pitch choices, handling of pitchers emotions, framing, etc.), hence why some teams maybe have not gotten on board with the program. There's also the fact that the catcher doesn't play as much as other position players and the position is very physically demanding and takes it toll. A team might be willing to field a poor defensive catcher if it means giving him 45-60 starts a year, but wouldn't give a SS or CF the same leeway since they would be expected to play more games.

As you pointed out, a decent catcher that has a great bat can also be converted to another position later on, especially dh, which might explan why teams are willing to put up with guys who aren't great at game calling while they can still play the position and then later convert them once their body/ability can't follow.

08-16-2021, 09:43 AM	#4
cbbl All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,179	Yep, it does. And you can see the effectiveness (or ineffectiveness) of a catcher by looking at his CERA (Catcher's ERA). You'll find it under the basic Fielding Stats. You can compare catchers on a team here by looking at a catcher's ERA versus the team ERA. Take for example this team: Team ERA = 3.95 Catcher #1 CERA = 3.16 Catcher #2 CERA = 4.85 Catcher #3 CERA = 4.56 From this single statistic, it can be reasonably inferred that catcher #1 calls the best game and is primarily responsible for keeping the team ERA below 4.00. Of course, that's only a surface level picture and assumes that all catchers catch all pitchers. If you have specific pitcher-catcher relationships, you'd have to consider those also. In my example, perhaps Catcher #2 is actually a really good game caller but gets paired up with the weakest pitchers on the team. Unfortunately OOTP doesn't have a correlating split that shows how a particular pitcher does when being caught by a particular catcher. __________________ MacBook Pro 13-inch (2018); 2.7GHz Quad-Core i7; 16GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3; Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 (1536 MB) Last edited by cbbl; 08-19-2021 at 09:26 AM.

08-17-2021, 10:26 AM	#5
koohead Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 3,137	how about familiarity?? take this one step further...has anyone noticed/tracked a change in pitching staff performance when you change your catcher? For example, I had an All-Star catcher that was my starter for 4 years. 120-130 starts every year. pitching staff did great. I let him go in Free Agency because I had a prospect ready in Triple A who I thought was equal in terms of ability and arm and all that. My entire pitching staff (starters, relievers, closer) had a noticeable drop in performance. half to a full run higher in ERA, walks went up, BAPIP went up. For the first half of the year, it was worse...by the end of the year things seemed to level out. So was this just a one off? or is there something to the catcher influence on a staff's overall performance? __________________ GM - New Jersey Bears of the NPBL;

08-15-2021, 09:23 PM	#1
polydamas All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 598	Does Catcher Ability Influence Pitcher Production? IRL, catcher have a huge influence on the pitching staff because they are the ones calling the game. Is this in the game at all? To what extent? Am I hamstringing my pitchers by having subpar catchers?

08-15-2021, 09:30 PM	#2
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,262	From everything I have seen here and elsewhere regarding OOTP, and in my own experience with the game, catcher ability plays a fairly significant role in helping your pitching staff to have better results. I know that there are several YouTube videos on this subject which point strongly towards this conclusion. I know this is a running theme in many of the videos by Sgt. Mushroom and I believe you will also find one by Alex Murray on this subject. But yes, I believe that if you don't have gifted defensive catchers (particularly catcher ability but arm isn't insignificant either, particularly depending upon the offensive environment of your save) you are doing a disservice to your pitching staff. __________________ The Denver Brewers of the W.P. Kinsella League-- The fun starts here(1965-1971: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=289570 And continues here (1972-1976): https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=300500 On we go (1977- 1979): https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=314601 For ongoing and more random updates on the WPK:https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=325147, https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=330717

08-15-2021, 09:41 PM	#3
Miamikb2001 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Redwood City Ca Posts: 53	Absolutely unequivocally makes a huge difference especially if he’s rated an 80.Arm is important too but for purely helping your pitchers I would say you definitely want your catcher to be minimum 60 preferably 70 or above just my two cents.I have played at out at least a couple thousand games in the past 4 years so Lots of experience with this. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

08-21-2021, 10:49 AM	#9
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 3,758	This has been adjusted since OOTP21. The catcher influence is less in historical games now than in fictional leagues. It may have been adjusted for fictional leagues too though. Markus mentioned that he made this adjustment in an interview he did with Scott Braun before release. The catcher ability was too strong previously and was essentially an exploit and it did not represent the proper defensive impact they should have from framing pitches.

08-23-2021, 12:06 AM	#10
One Post Wonder All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 538	It makes a huge difference. I value catcher ability more highly than that of any other rating at any other position. I will not play anyone there whose rating isn't blue, even if that means I have to put a guy who hits like a pitcher in that spot, or a guy with little to no arm. I hadn't noticed this being nerfed, but I'll have to start looking more closely at CERA's as I play. It will take a lot to get out of the habit of playing top defensive guys there though.

08-23-2021, 06:01 AM	#11
Mancandy Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 146 Infractions: 0/1 (3)	Yeah, all I ever really look at with catchers is their defensive ratings. The only thing I care about offensively is making sure I move them to a different position if they’re great hitters. It’s wild to me that MLB teams keep guys like Joe Mauer and Buster Posey at catcher. On the topic of catchers, I’ve always thought it’d be cool if OOTP had a chemistry or experience tracker for pitcher/catcher combos, like FHM has with linemates. (Hopefully no OOTP developers take personal offense to this and scream about how OOTP isn’t like FHM and they shouldn’t be compared, like the reverse happens anytime somebody suggests something from OOTP be put in FHM. But the OOTP boards seem to be run by adults, so I don’t expect it to be an issue.)