What is the point?

[Elektranaut]

So a manager sends me a message saying he has a SP he is willing to trade,get in touch for a discussion,I click on discuss and it says you have no players who can make the deal work........so what is the point?

[RchW]

I've asked this many times and received no answer. The entire module needs to be fixed.

[BIG17EASY]

Unfortunately the "Make This Work" button only elicits a response of any single player who will make that trade work. So when you get an e-mail like that, if you hit that button, the opposing GM will let you know if there is anyone in your organization who he will take in a one-for-one trade.

It takes a little extra work, but you need to craft a package of multiple players when this happens. Look at the other team's strengths and weaknesses (the little red, green and blue balls in the bottom center of the screen) and offer a package of players that fits their needs. Eventually you'll get to a point where the "Make This Work" button gives you a list of players who, if added to the trade, will get the AI to accept it.

If you go through that process a few times, you'll realize that it's a fair approximation of an actual trade negotiation and not simply clicking a button to get a trade that works.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Unfortunately the "Make This Work" button only elicits a response of any single player who will make that trade work. So when you get an e-mail like that, if you hit that button, the opposing GM will let you know if there is anyone in your organization who he will take in a one-for-one trade.

It takes a little extra work, but you need to craft a package of multiple players when this happens. Look at the other team's strengths and weaknesses (the little red, green and blue balls in the bottom center of the screen) and offer a package of players that fits their needs. Eventually you'll get to a point where the "Make This Work" button gives you a list of players who, if added to the trade, will get the AI to accept it.

If you go through that process a few times, you'll realize that it's a fair approximation of an actual trade negotiation and not simply clicking a button to get a trade that works.

You missed the point in the op. This is not a "make this work" issue. It's the AI response to human team posted needs. Not a regular trade proposal.

The AI already offered a player but there is in fact no deal to be made for that player under any circumstances. I've tried well over 100 of these fake offers and there is no combination of players that work.

The module is broken IMO.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by RchW

You missed the point in the op. This is not a "make this work" issue. It's the AI response to human team posted needs. Not a regular trade proposal.

The AI already offered a player but there is in fact no deal to be made for that player under any circumstances. I've tried well over 100 of these fake offers and there is no combination of players that work.

The module is broken IMO.

Sorry, the way I read the OP was that he clicked the "make this trade work" button. Still reads that way to me even after your response. The only way I know of that leads to the AI saying you have no players that make this trade work is with that button. So while you might be right about what's leading the OP there, I think he's trying to use that button to fast track a trade rather than trying to offer a package.

Are you saying that every time the AI responds to the user's posted needs that a trade can't be worked out? Because that hasn't been the case for me.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Sorry, the way I read the OP was that he clicked the "make this trade work" button. Still reads that way to me even after your response. The only way I know of that leads to the AI saying you have no players that make this trade work is with that button. So while you might be right about what's leading the OP there, I think he's trying to use that button to fast track a trade rather than trying to offer a package.

Are you saying that every time the AI responds to the user's posted needs that a trade can't be worked out? Because that hasn't been the case for me.

In my case yes. I've never gotten a list of players back despite in some cases adding multiple players of significant value based on the offering team needs. At this point I don't use the module because it often generates daily email offers which follow the same pattern.

Curiously what sticks out about the offers is that they are often core pieces of the AI team and not players you would expect to be offered routinely. That reduces player value as an opening gambit.

Bottom line, just like real life, if an opposing team contacts me by offering a specific player on their team they should not be able to say, "you have no players I'd take". If that happened more than once the real life GM would be laughed out of the profession.

I'm close to starting a new season. I'll turn it back on and see what transpires.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by RchW

In my case yes. I've never gotten a list of players back despite in some cases adding multiple players of significant value based on the offering team needs. At this point I don't use the module because it often generates daily email offers which follow the same pattern.

Curiously what sticks out about the offers is that they are often core pieces of the AI team and not players you would expect to be offered routinely. That reduces player value as an opening gambit.

Bottom line, just like real life, if an opposing team contacts me by offering a specific player on their team they should not be able to say, "you have no players I'd take". If that happened more than once the real life GM would be laughed out of the profession.

I'm close to starting a new season. I'll turn it back on and see what transpires.

I definitely agree with the bolded part. I've dismissed e-mails from AI GMs for that reason. It's just not realistic that a team would e-mail me and ask if I'm interested in their 25-year-old impact player who isn't even arbitration eligible yet.

I have a feeling that's what's leading to not being able to work out a deal. Whatever AI function is generating that e-mail is not tied to the same function that causes the AI to value that player so highly (rightly so) that you can't acquire the guy.

I have worked out one or two trades from this feature, but I'm pretty certain they were for bench players or lower-tier players, not stars.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I definitely agree with the bolded part. I've dismissed e-mails from AI GMs for that reason. It's just not realistic that a team would e-mail me and ask if I'm interested in their 25-year-old impact player who isn't even arbitration eligible yet.

I have a feeling that's what's leading to not being able to work out a deal. Whatever AI function is generating that e-mail is not tied to the same function that causes the AI to value that player so highly (rightly so) that you can't acquire the guy.

I have worked out one or two trades from this feature, but I'm pretty certain they were for bench players or lower-tier players, not stars.

So I think we agree more than not on this issue. Funny though I delete the emails for lower tier players now (or when I had it on) because there is even less justification for "you have no players... ..." in that case.

[PSUColonel]

I'd really like to see the way trades are conducted revamped in a big way.

Firstly, I'd like to rid of the shop player function in lieu of an actual working trading block. Putting a player on the trading block should be the same as shopping a player...but now, AI teams can take their time in putting together trade packages (more than one player) and offer trades if interested.

Next, when you describe players in the team needs, the AI should be making offers to to you, and not just say "player X fits the description of what you are looking for" with zero intention of trading the player to start with. (which is what is being described in this thread.

and lastly, I would much prefer a system where it's tougher to constantly "game" the AI by adding and subtracting players and cash until you get a deal you like even though the AI might have already accepted at an earlier point. This is why I would prefer a system where you have to "submit" trade proposals (and maybe not receive instant feedback) to the AI. The AI will then accept, reject or have a counter proposal. I also think once the AI does accept a trade, you should not be able to start altering the deal again to get it down to the least amount you have to give up...it's unrealistic, and as someone else in this thread said, any GM doing this would be laughed out of the business.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by RchW

So I think we agree more than not on this issue. Funny though I delete the emails for lower tier players now (or when I had it on) because there is even less justification for "you have no players... ..." in that case.

Yep, it definitely needs work. I like the concept of setting team needs and getting offers from the AI, but the majority of players in the e-mail are either unrealistic trade pieces or, like you said, the AI won't trade them once you try to negotiate. It shouldn't be so easy that every e-mail results in a trade, but there's certainly a middle ground that would work much better.