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OOTP 16 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 04-04-2015, 04:41 PM   #1
silentrob
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19th century players and errors

Just curious why, when I begin a league in the 19th century, all the players have such horrible error ratings?

I know in real life they made tons of errors. The fields sucked, some played without gloves, and scorers gave players an error every time they touched the ball but didn't get someone out, basically.

Still, shouldn't the error ratings be compared to contemporaries, rather than compared to some absolute standard? The last version of the game I had, version 12, did it that way. Why the change?
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:14 PM   #2
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Quote:
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Just curious why, when I begin a league in the 19th century, all the players have such horrible error ratings?

I know in real life they made tons of errors.
You answered your own question.


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Still, shouldn't the error ratings be compared to contemporaries, rather than compared to some absolute standard? The last version of the game I had, version 12, did it that way. Why the change?
I don't think there has been any change. Players are rated according to how many errors players made in real life. And, as you note, players made a ton of errors in the 19th century.
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:20 AM   #3
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This approach does not work, though. All guys 125 years ago are bad fielders compared to today, yes, but they were not all bad compared to each other. Some were good, most average, and a few were bad then, too. To lump all of them into the category of "bad" with poor ratings means that if you played a replay of the 1885 season, for instance, they will all be about equally bad. That obviously was not true in 1885, any more than it would be today.

As I said in the first post, the last version of the game I bought, 12, did not rate players this way. That version had players with an error rating compared to each other, not compared to an absolute standard.
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Old 04-05-2015, 02:28 AM   #4
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That version had players with an error rating compared to each other, not compared to an absolute standard.
In OOTP16 Error Ratings run from .53 to 1.33, centered on 1.00 for 1871 as a for instance. Every year is cowculated individually and all years have a 1.00 center. The high/low spread can vary a bit year to year depending on the things it depends on. Modifiers determine how many errors that actually generates per year. I know this because I have calculated these ratings personally since ver.10 or so. Actually to be fair my computer does the calculations. I just feed it data. And carrots.

Only the last 3 (for OOTP16 that is 2012, 2013, 2014) years are recalculated for each version so Version 12's ratings are as they were in 12.
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Old 04-05-2015, 02:51 PM   #5
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Every year is cowculated individually
Is that what they teach at Bovine University?
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Old 04-06-2015, 09:35 AM   #6
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Is that what they teach at Bovine University?
Yep cow + cow + cow =1.00 error rating.😆
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Old 04-06-2015, 01:57 PM   #7
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In OOTP16 Error Ratings run from .53 to 1.33, centered on 1.00 for 1871 as a for instance. Every year is cowculated individually and all years have a 1.00 center. The high/low spread can vary a bit year to year depending on the things it depends on. Modifiers determine how many errors that actually generates per year. I know this because I have calculated these ratings personally since ver.10 or so. Actually to be fair my computer does the calculations. I just feed it data. And carrots.

Only the last 3 (for OOTP16 that is 2012, 2013, 2014) years are recalculated for each version so Version 12's ratings are as they were in 12.
I think what he's saying here is the League Modifiers tell the game how many errors there will be, the player ratings only distribute those errors? So the best fielder in the league is the best fielder whether his rating you see is 10 or 5(1-10 scale)
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Old 04-06-2015, 02:16 PM   #8
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You also need to look at the other factor. Equipment or lack there of.
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Old 04-06-2015, 02:27 PM   #9
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In OOTP they are all rated badly on Defense but rated excellent in speed. Sure even in RD they still get picked off 40 timers a season with 50 SB but they all run. Playing a modern era game vs pre 1900 guys on base is frustrating as a MGR.
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Old 04-06-2015, 04:12 PM   #10
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I think what he's saying here is the League Modifiers tell the game how many errors there will be, the player ratings only distribute those errors? So the best fielder in the league is the best fielder whether his rating you see is 10 or 5(1-10 scale)
Exactly. I am not sure if the ratings conversion is still according to an old engine where the league modifiers were less important. I have to go way to remember if league modifiers have always been there. However, the relative ratings is what matters. You can put a guy with 20 out of 20 power into a 1871 league and he still won't hit 10 HRs a season. A guy with one power in 2015 will probably hit more HRs than a guy with 4 power in 1871. Ratings from different eras are incomparable. A 20 power in 1871 means something different than 20 power in 2015. I am not sure but I think the ratings are still based on the very old system where the rating told you what to expect. So 19th century guys have high speed because they had a lot of stolen bases compared to modern guys. They also had higher contact and gap with lower power. Now the league modifiers determine totals and the ratings determine the distribution. I think at one time a 20 PH rating would mean 50+ homers a year regardless of era. Now it is ranking of players in the league.

If this bothers some people that the ratings look low simply click show ratings compared to league average in global settings. Then the best ratings will be like 20/20 out of and the worst will be like 7/20. What I have noticed is over time you often find a lot more guys near the mean if you play without a draft.

I always use historical player creation modifiers but I am not sure how big if any difference it makes. All my players in fictional games set in the 19th century have modern fielding ratings but they still make historical errors. For instance my Shortshop James Fitzgerald in 1871 had a .794 fielding pct with 51 errors over 31 games but had a fielding rate of 12. My SS in 1911 had a rating of 12 and had 56 errors over 135 games for a pct of .928.

The modifiers are more important than fielding ratings.

Last edited by Biggio509; 04-06-2015 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:33 PM   #11
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The reason random play works is that the ratings along with the modifiers for the year you are playing result in year appropriate stats. Barry Bonds just hit 14 HR's in 1886 and the number 2 guy had 8. In the other league Griffey lead with 11.
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Old 04-07-2015, 06:46 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
In OOTP16 Error Ratings run from .53 to 1.33, centered on 1.00 for 1871 as a for instance. Every year is cowculated individually and all years have a 1.00 center. The high/low spread can vary a bit year to year depending on the things it depends on. Modifiers determine how many errors that actually generates per year.
OK, I am not too experienced at this but are you saying that the game generates a base error rating for each year (the 1.00 part) and then all players generated at that position get a score somewhere between 1/2 (the bad fielders) and 4/3 of that base rating based on their fielding percentage?

Not trying to be difficult, just trying to understand how everything works.
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Old 04-07-2015, 10:15 PM   #13
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The ratings vary every year. Some years players might be betwixt .25 and 2.00 it just depends but a league average fielder will be right around 1.00 and that is per position. All individual fielding positions average 1.00 but SS might have a wider variance and 2B less so. It just depends. It takes a 600mb database to figure it and lots of other things out.
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