Rule 5 ?

[Bluenoser]

I was reading a bit about the rules for the upcoming Rule 5 draft in MLB. It mentions that if a team who selected a player doesn't keep him on their 25 man roster, he has to be offered back to his original team for $25k. (Cost to draft is $50K)

What happens if the original team says no, we don't want him back?

Are you still required to keep him on the 25, or can you then waive and assign to minors (provided waivers clear of course)?

Can you then waive them off the 40 man?


Couldn't find the answers to these questions. Any help/clarification appreciated.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I was reading a bit about the rules for the upcoming Rule 5 draft in MLB. It mentions that if a team who selected a player doesn't keep him on their 25 man roster, he has to be offered back to his original team for $25k. (Cost to draft is $50K)

What happens if the original team says no, we don't want him back?

Are you still required to keep him on the 25, or can you then waive and assign to minors (provided waivers clear of course)?

Can you then waive them off the 40 man?


Couldn't find the answers to these questions. Any help/clarification appreciated.

I might be wrong, but IIRC he becomes a free agent. In real life anyway.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I was reading a bit about the rules for the upcoming Rule 5 draft in MLB. It mentions that if a team who selected a player doesn't keep him on their 25 man roster, he has to be offered back to his original team for $25k. (Cost to draft is $50K)

What happens if the original team says no, we don't want him back?

Are you still required to keep him on the 25, or can you then waive and assign to minors (provided waivers clear of course)?

Can you then waive them off the 40 man?


Couldn't find the answers to these questions. Any help/clarification appreciated.

In that case he stays with the selecting team with no further limitations on what they can do with him.

He's theirs free and clear to keep in the majors, assign to the minors without waiving if he has options left, keep on the 40 man or remove from the 40 man via waivers and DFA.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I might be wrong, but IIRC he becomes a free agent. In real life anyway.

Are you sure? I could be wrong I guess, but am pretty sure I'm not...

[injury log]

No, you're right Lukas.

[The Wolf]

Read this:

Baseball America - Ask BA

[Le Grande Orange]

The disposition of players drafted under Rule 5 are described in Rule 6.

A player drafted under Rule 5 has to be kept on the selecting team's active roster for the entire major league season. If the club decides it wants to remove the player from the active roster, it must first request outright assignment waivers. If no club claims the player, then he must be offered back to the organization from which he was drafted. If they don't want the player back, then he can be assigned outright to the minors (since such waivers have already been granted), or it can then release the player.

If the drafted player has the right to elect free agency in lieu of accepting an outright assignment, then he can do that or accept the assignment.

[le receveur]

i thought the player could then just be traded? so if the team doesn`t want it back, couldn`t they just agree to trade him of $1, or future considerations? and then the claiming team owns the rights outright?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by le receveur

i thought the player could then just be traded? so if the team doesn`t want it back, couldn`t they just agree to trade him of $1, or future considerations? and then the claiming team owns the rights outright?

A trade would still require the outright assignment waiver since the player would be removed from one club's 40-man roster and placed on another's. The club taking the player would have to abide by the Rule 5 requirement and keep the player on its active roster for the season.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The disposition of players drafted under Rule 5 are described in Rule 6.

A player drafted under Rule 5 has to be kept on the selecting team's active roster for the entire major league season. If the club decides it wants to remove the player from the active roster, it must first request outright assignment waivers. If no club claims the player, then he must be offered back to the organization from which he was drafted. If they don't want the player back, then he can be assigned outright to the minors (since such waivers have already been granted), or it can then release the player.

If the drafted player has the right to elect free agency in lieu of accepting an outright assignment, then he can do that or accept the assignment.

I am hoping Markus will start recognizing the actual MLB transaction rules in the next version (also with finances) rather than leaving this overly simplifies model we have now.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am hoping Markus will start recognizing the actual MLB transaction rules in the next version (also with finances) rather than leaving this overly simplifies model we have now.

There's an additional aspect to the Rule 5 draft which isn't recreated in OOTP: the draft-excluded player.

These are players added to the 40-man roster after Aug. 15th. Such players must be outrighted back to the minors no later than four days after the end of the World Series. If they are not, they are considered draft-excluded (since they are on the 40-man roster, they are not eligible to be selected in the Rule 5 draft). Such players can only be released; they cannot be sent back to the minors until early in spring training. Just like Rule 5 drafted players, they are guaranteed time in spring training before the club is allowed to consider sending them back to the minors.

The reason for this rule is to prevent gaming the Rule 5 system. Without such a rule, a club could add a player to the 40-man roster before the draft—thus keeping out of another team's hands—and then immediately outright him back to the minors after the Rule 5 draft is over. Draft-excluded status means the player has to be either retained by the club until into spring training or releasing him (which makes him a free agent able to sign with any other club).

[injury log]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I am hoping Markus will start recognizing the actual MLB transaction rules in the next version (also with finances) rather than leaving this overly simplifies model we have now.

Why do you think the model is overly simplified? What features of the real life rules are missing in OOTP that would appreciably enhance the OOTP user's experience?

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

A trade would still require the outright assignment waiver since the player would be removed from one club's 40-man roster and placed on another's. The club taking the player would have to abide by the Rule 5 requirement and keep the player on its active roster for the season.

Maybe I am missing something. 99% of time a rule 5 crafted would have options. So if I trade for his right out rights I should be able to send to minors without waiver.

[PSUColonel]

It's simplified in that it doesn't model a lot of the MLB roster/transaction/ finance rules. If OOTP is going to be a general manager sim, I still feel it needs to go much deeper into rules, player development, finances, stadiums, scouting and international leagues. Why a GM would ever be setting ticket prices is beyond me??...but a GM would be deciding which players to send to winter ball for instance.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

Maybe I am missing something. 99% of time a rule 5 crafted would have options. So if I trade for his right out rights I should be able to send to minors without waiver.

That defeats the purpose of the rule 5 draft. The idea is to prevent players from being warehoused. It's nothing to do with options.

Edit:

Since the player was not on the 40-man roster.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by RchW

That defeats the purpose of the rule 5 draft. The idea is to prevent players from being warehoused. It's nothing to do with options.

Edit:

Since the player was not on the 40-man roster.

Once someone is picked in Rule 5, they are automatically added to the 40-man roster of the picking team.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

A trade would still require the outright assignment waiver since the player would be removed from one club's 40-man roster and placed on another's. The club taking the player would have to abide by the Rule 5 requirement and keep the player on its active roster for the season.

i always thought the team who picked someone in Rule 5, could trade with the original team and get the rights outrights, which you would do if the first team didn't want the player back

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

Once someone is picked in Rule 5, they are automatically added to the 40-man roster of the picking team.

And trading him doesn't change the rule that allowed him to be picked.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by RchW

And trading him doesn't change the rule that allowed him to be picked.

so let me get this right.

Cubs pick Wilson off Rule 5 from the Jays.

in may Cubs realise Wilson is not ready for Majors, decide to return him to the Jays. Jays say, nah we don't want him, will trade him to you for a $1. Cubs don`t own his right outright? that's awful, for Wilson,,, what happens next?

[injury log]

If a team doesn't want to keep a Rule 5 pick, he:

- first goes on waivers. Any team can claim him and keep him on their active roster just like they'd drafted him in the Rule 5.

- if he clears waivers then he gets offered back to his original team for $25,000. If his original team doesn't want him, then the drafting team can keep him. Note now he's cleared waivers, so he can be assigned to the minors, removed from the 40-man, etc.

And a team can obviously trade a Rule 5 guy to another team without waiving him first, provided the new team abides by the Rule 5 restrictions.

Teams do also occasionally trade with a pick's original team for the rights to keep (and freely demote) a Rule 5 selection. I don't know anything about the rules governing those transactions, but I'm 98% sure the player does not need to be waived first; that doesn't seem to make any logical sense.