Creating a Baseball World That Includes Both Historical and Fictional Players

[chucksabr]

I am noodling doing an American baseball world from scratch in which I set up leagues around the country that are regional at first but which might evolve into a tiered league setup, with the top league(s) being super-regional (and eventually national) in scope, and other leagues being regional or local in scope. You know, sort of like real life. The twist is that this idea would implement a promotion/relegation system, and who knows, we might see some of the old expired teams like, say, the Troy Haymakers, actually become a super-regional or national powerhouse in the 20th century. I'd like to see whether that could happen.

The thing I would like to do is to have actual real historical players, all the ones who exist in the OOTP game, rotate into this baseball world at the appropriate times, while the rest of the teams in this world get filled with fictional players, some of whom perhaps might go on to become stars in their own right in this world.

Ideally, in the early part of this world, an historical player would rotate into a league located in their region, e.g., a player in 1870s who's from Pennsylvania doesn't magically show up in some league in Oregon, but I could try to figure that out as I go along. The trick is that in this expansive world, where there are far more player slots than there are documented historical players, the slots get filled by fictional players who, in the game, become just as real and some even as accomplished as the historical players also rotating into the game.

I hope I'm explaining this right, but can anyone give me a quick feel for whether 20 can manage this kind of situation and if so, how I might approach?

[NoOne]

maybe? can you set up a pro/rel with 2 associated leagues? that'd give you 2 different drafts / league options to set to do exactly what you want.

couple clicks and you'd know... if it shares the same draft and can't get around it with an association of 2+ ML-level leagues, not much you can do.

if you want them to have a chance to rise, then they'd have to be of similar quality, at least, as far as league levels. (and PCM? whatever controls player creation for respective drafts)

you could make one slightly lower, like .900 or .800 etc, and that would make it rarer for a team in that associated league to rise.. a dial, basically.

i have a feeling pro/rel is limited to onen league? this would at least trim it down to 1 thing to check in a simple/similar structured game setup and you'd know.

p.s. Geez, chuck... you're hot!

[chucksabr]

Down, boy ...

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by NoOne

maybe? can you set up a pro/rel with 2 associated leagues? that'd give you 2 different drafts / league options to set to do exactly what you want.

couple clicks and you'd know... if it shares the same draft and can't get around it with an association of 2+ ML-level leagues, not much you can do.

if you want them to have a chance to rise, then they'd have to be of similar quality, at least, as far as league levels. (and PCM? whatever controls player creation for respective drafts)

you could make one slightly lower, like .900 or .800 etc, and that would make it rarer for a team in that associated league to rise.. a dial, basically.

i have a feeling pro/rel is limited to onen league? this would at least trim it down to 1 thing to check in a simple/similar structured game setup and you'd know.

p.s. Geez, chuck... you're hot!

I'm already well-versed in running promotion/relegation systems, so that's not the issue. The question is about rotating in actual historical players into a world alongside fictional players who might become as prominent in this world as the historical players.

[Jamee999]

One thing you can do is have MLB importing historical players "in the background". MLB is active as a league, it has a draft of historical players every year, but no games and no playoffs. Then, the day after the draft, you can just one-click release everyone on an MLB roster and they'll all become free agents. (It may also be possible to just have the players import as free agents directly, I'm not sure.)

If you keep MLB rosters as frozen those teams shouldn't sign anyone, and you can just use MLB as a utility to bring historical players into the universe while your fictional leagues also generate fictional players. I've done this in OOTP19, but not 20 yet. Getting the right balance between historical and fictional player strengths is difficult, but should be possible if you want a mixed historical-fictional league.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by Jamee999

One thing you can do is have MLB importing historical players "in the background". MLB is active as a league, it has a draft of historical players every year, but no games and no playoffs. Then, the day after the draft, you can just one-click release everyone on an MLB roster and they'll all become free agents. (It may also be possible to just have the players import as free agents directly, I'm not sure.)

My preference is to not have to manipulate the game so historical players can be integrated into the baseball system so they can land on teams. My preference is that, as time goes on, as we move from season to season and as players come online when it's their time, they merely show up and are signed as a free agent by a team, as opposed to me having to manually move them around to fulfill the sense of verisimilitude I would be seeking for this idea. See what I'm asking for?

The bonus thing I'd like to happen is for players to be signed as free agents by team in their region when it's time, in some automatic way. For example, when Cy Young shows up he's signed by a team in Ohio; when Ty Cobb shows up he's signed by a team in the deep south; Walter Johnson is signed by a team in California; Babe Ruth is signed by a team in the mid-Atlantic states; etc. Kind of like real life.

[NoOne]

if you can't separate the drafts within the same rel-pro league, then you'd have to do them manually each year.

i put too many words wrapped around that. if you are versed, then you know the answer.

- it doesn't have to be 2 drafts, you simply need 2 discrete avenues for normal player creation in the game to control with settings -- one with historical, one with fictional -- if you want htem separated in that way.

whether or not they can mingle after that is based on pro-rel, if possible, or you can allow players to move around more easily between ML-level leagues that exist with FA rules.

[Jamee999]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

My preference is to not have to manipulate the game so historical players can be integrated into the baseball system so they can land on teams. My preference is that, as time goes on, as we move from season to season and as players come online when it's their time, they merely show up and are signed as a free agent by a team, as opposed to me having to manually move them around to fulfill the sense of verisimilitude I would be seeking for this idea. See what I'm asking for?

The bonus thing I'd like to happen is for players to be signed as free agents by team in their region when it's time, in some automatic way. For example, when Cy Young shows up he's signed by a team in Ohio; when Ty Cobb shows up he's signed by a team in the deep south; Walter Johnson is signed by a team in California; Babe Ruth is signed by a team in the mid-Atlantic states; etc. Kind of like real life.

You shouldn't have to do much manipulation at all. You might have to press "clear all rosters" once a year on the MLB league you have running - but it could be that it's possible to have all players come in as free agents automatically, I'm not sure. If you have that league never playing games it's as if it doesn't exist except as a procedure to import players.

I don't think if it's possible to have players automatically signed by regional teams though. I've thought for a while it might be cool to have an option for how "local" leagues should be.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Create a league with historical players. Dump them into a draft pool. Create a bunch of fictional players, the game makes it easy. Dump them into the pool. Have a draft.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

Create a league with historical players. Dump them into a draft pool. Create a bunch of fictional players, the game makes it easy. Dump them into the pool. Have a draft.

There won't be a draft. It will be all free agent. Would that make a difference?

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

There won't be a draft. It will be all free agent. Would that make a difference?

If you go to the League Settings screen you can schedule an Inaugural Draft. All of the free agents will be in the draft pool.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

If you go to the League Settings screen you can schedule an Inaugural Draft. All of the free agents will be in the draft pool.

There won't be a draft. It will be an all free agent world.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

There won't be a draft. It will be an all free agent world.

In that case don't do a draft.

[chucksabr]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

In that case don't do a draft.

I won't.

I was also hoping the get some suggestions about the actual thing I was asking about.

[Curve Ball Dave]

Originally Posted by chucksabr

I was also hoping the get some suggestions about the actual thing I was asking about.

Which you received. I missed the part about how you didn't want a draft, just all free agents. Whether players are in a draft pool or a free agent pool it won't matter. If you create a league with historical players and you release all of them from their rosters they will all be free agents, rather than in a draft pool. Once all of those players are in the free agent pool you can have the game generate fictional players and they'll be free agents as well.

[bertha]

Loving this thread, I think this is a very interesting discussion

[chucksabr]

Here's what I would like to do with this world.

I would be creating hundreds of teams in dozens of leagues around the country. Let's say, 200 teams in 25 leagues. Two hundred teams in the early early days will require something on the order of 2,500 players. I would like to start this world in, let's say, 1876.

There were 121 actual major leaguers in 1876. I would like all 121 of those historical guys to show up in his world scattered across these teams I create, and then have the game create the remaining 2,400 fictional players to round out the world.

Forty of those actual major leaguers "retired" after 1876, i.e., never played another year, so they would disappear from my world too, replaced to be with the nineteen actual historical players who did play their first season in 1877, and who would come in and show up in my league scattered across various teams. And then maybe 700 of the fictional players also retire, to be replaced by another 700 fictional rookies, and then we play out that season.

Rinse and repeat for subsequent years.

My goal would be a situation where I don't have to manually go in, release players from teams into any pools, move players around to other teams, or any of that. I would just want to let the game figure that out on its own, season after season. But all throughout, they are rotating in (rookies) and out (retirees) the actual historical major leaguers who did play in that era, supplemented with fictional players being created and retired alongside them.

I suppose I can just go in and try to hack it out on my own and see if I can figure it out, but I just wanted to ask whether anyone can think of a setting I should tweak so I can accomplish this first time out of the box, without me going through the trial and error.

[Jamee999]

So I tested it and if you use the system I described earlier (having MLB running in the background with no games, no spring-training, no tiebreaker games, no playoffs, and rosters frozen) all you have to do is press this button once a year. The game should be able to import the historical players as free agents, which would mean you wouldn't have to press the button at all, but for some reason I can't get it to work without MLB having a draft.

[chucksabr]

OK this gives me a jumping off point to work from. Thanks!

[too_on_too_out]

Did you succeed?