GIDP, runner holds

Dyzalot · 02-01-2020, 06:54 PM

This is impossible. It never happens. Please fix this for the next release.

brich1212 · 02-01-2020, 07:01 PM

Well it was a 1-6-3

I could see that happening. Rare. But that'd be the only way thats happening.

Dyzalot · 02-01-2020, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brich1212

Well it was a 1-6-3

I could see that happening. Rare. But that'd be the only way thats happening.

No it isn't. The runner will run home and if the pitcher holds him at third then no double play. Feel free to look for an example in MLB where there isn't some crazy explanation such as the guy at third had his p[ants fall down or he tripped over his feet and went back to third. Ever since Little League, runners are taught to run on contact if a groundball in that spot because you'd rather give up the out at home than give up two outs at second and first.

I'm 50 years old and I've never seen this in Little League, Senior League, High School, College or the pros. Now maybe in a game in the Netherlands or somewhere that doesn't do a good job of teaching the basics but not in American baseball.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 02-07-2020, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

No it isn't. The runner will run home and if the pitcher holds him at third then no double play. Feel free to look for an example in MLB where there isn't some crazy explanation such as the guy at third had his p[ants fall down or he tripped over his feet and went back to third. Ever since Little League, runners are taught to run on contact if a groundball in that spot because you'd rather give up the out at home than give up two outs at second and first.

I'm 50 years old and I've never seen this in Little League, Senior League, High School, College or the pros. Now maybe in a game in the Netherlands or somewhere that doesn't do a good job of teaching the basics but not in American baseball.

I was coaching in little league regional playoffs we had runners at 1st and 3rd. Hard grounder to the pitcher (no outs btw) and he holds the guy on third and then turns to one at short who also glances at the runner at 3rd before throwing to first for the double play while the runner on third stays put. I was base coaching third and told the runner to go on contact which of course he did not. He reasoned that he could still score with two outs. He was 12, so what do you expect, lol. This has also happened in the Major League more than once. I have seen it once, maybe twice. Oh and I am 64 years young

jbergey22 · 02-08-2020, 12:47 AM

Most likely scenario here is that pitcher fields the ball, looks the runner back to 3rd and gets the out at first. Double play in this situation should be extremely rare as in slow runners at 1st, 3rd and at the plate.

Dyzalot · 02-08-2020, 01:03 AM

In the MLB a runner who held for some reason would get fined by his manager. This is such a fundamental mistake. You can't hold a runner at third twice while turning a double play. Yes I'll give you Little League since kids that young make mistakes but still... Even Puig would be embarrassed if this was him on third.

jbergey22 · 02-08-2020, 02:07 AM

It happened 12 times in MLB last year...Men on 1st and 3rd 0 outs.ground out to the pitcher

Results
2x the runner from 3rd scored, out at first
9X the runner stayed at 3rd, runner at first went to 2nd, out at first
1x the runner was forced out at 2nd and the runner didnt score

Between 2010 & 2018 in MLB with 1st and 3rd, 0 outs and a ground out/s to the pitcher there were 27 double play groundouts in which the runner on 3rd didnt score 10 times.

Between 1995 & 2010 in MLB with 1st and 3rd, 0 outs and a ground out/s to the pitcher there were 79 double play groundouts in which the runner didnt score 31 times.

It seems like around 35-40 percent of the time on a ground ball double play to the pitcher with 0 outs the runner at 3rd stands still apparently. Interesting.

Source: Baseball Reference Event Finder

zappa1 · 02-08-2020, 07:29 AM

Never say never!!

Ty Cobb · 02-08-2020, 10:08 AM

Skelton's numbers don't show him to be a roadrunner. With some slick fielders (or smart sneaky guys like Kinsler) I could definitely see this happening.

albatross11 · 02-08-2020, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It happened 12 times in MLB last year...Men on 1st and 3rd 0 outs.ground out to the pitcher

Results
2x the runner from 3rd scored, out at first
9X the runner stayed at 3rd, runner at first went to 2nd, out at first
1x the runner was forced out at 2nd and the runner didnt score

Between 2010 & 2018 in MLB with 1st and 3rd, 0 outs and a ground out/s to the pitcher there were 27 double play groundouts in which the runner on 3rd didnt score 10 times.

Between 1995 & 2010 in MLB with 1st and 3rd, 0 outs and a ground out/s to the pitcher there were 79 double play groundouts in which the runner didnt score 31 times.

It seems like around 35-40 percent of the time on a ground ball double play to the pitcher with 0 outs the runner at 3rd stands still apparently. Interesting.

Source: Baseball Reference Event Finder

Yeah, but how old were the people watching these plays?

Cryomaniac · 02-08-2020, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

In the MLB a runner who held for some reason would get fined by his manager. This is such a fundamental mistake. You can't hold a runner at third twice while turning a double play. Yes I'll give you Little League since kids that young make mistakes but still... Even Puig would be embarrassed if this was him on third.

With Puig on third I'd be betting on a 123 double play in that situation, tbh.

Dyzalot · 02-08-2020, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It happened 12 times in MLB last year...Men on 1st and 3rd 0 outs.ground out to the pitcher

Results
2x the runner from 3rd scored, out at first
9X the runner stayed at 3rd, runner at first went to 2nd, out at first
1x the runner was forced out at 2nd and the runner didnt score

Between 2010 & 2018 in MLB with 1st and 3rd, 0 outs and a ground out/s to the pitcher there were 27 double play groundouts in which the runner on 3rd didnt score 10 times.

Between 1995 & 2010 in MLB with 1st and 3rd, 0 outs and a ground out/s to the pitcher there were 79 double play groundouts in which the runner didnt score 31 times.

It seems like around 35-40 percent of the time on a ground ball double play to the pitcher with 0 outs the runner at 3rd stands still apparently. Interesting.

Source: Baseball Reference Event Finder

So its a pretty rare event. Seems like it happens around once per year or maybe once every 2,000 games, give or take. I wish these kinds of events, plays that are out of the ordinary and only happen a few times or less per year, had some extra PbP to explain them. Maybe it was an attempted bunt that got popped up but a smart infielder saw he could get two if he lets it drop or maybe the runner on third is a young runner who often loses focus similar to a Yasiel Puig. Explanations would be nice.

As an aside, I've seen this several times, like more than ten, over my past eight months or so of playing OOTP XX. Now what this really means is that in the less than one thousand games and closer to a number between 100-200 games I have observed as they are simmed, I've seen this outcome more than ten times. Small sample size to judge so could have just been variance. Might be worth looking into though.

BirdWatcher · 02-08-2020, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

So its a pretty rare event. Seems like it happens around once per year or maybe once every 2,000 games, give or take. I wish these kinds of events, plays that are out of the ordinary and only happen a few times or less per year, had some extra PbP to explain them. Maybe it was an attempted bunt that got popped up but a smart infielder saw he could get two if he lets it drop or maybe the runner on third is a young runner who often loses focus similar to a Yasiel Puig. Explanations would be nice.

As an aside, I've seen this several times, like more than ten, over my past eight months or so of playing OOTP XX. Now what this really means is that in the less than one thousand games and closer to a number between 100-200 games I have observed as they are simmed, I've seen this outcome more than ten times. Small sample size to judge so could have just been variance. Might be worth looking into though.

Hmm. Are you and I reading the same data here, I wonder? Because it seems like the point is that the situation might be rare but the outcome you took exception to which started this thread, not so much.

Mariner and Giants Fan · 02-08-2020, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

So its a pretty rare event. Seems like it happens around once per year or maybe once every 2,000 games, give or take. I wish these kinds of events, plays that are out of the ordinary and only happen a few times or less per year, had some extra PbP to explain them. Maybe it was an attempted bunt that got popped up but a smart infielder saw he could get two if he lets it drop or maybe the runner on third is a young runner who often loses focus similar to a Yasiel Puig. Explanations would be nice.

As an aside, I've seen this several times, like more than ten, over my past eight months or so of playing OOTP XX. Now what this really means is that in the less than one thousand games and closer to a number between 100-200 games I have observed as they are simmed, I've seen this outcome more than ten times. Small sample size to judge so could have just been variance. Might be worth looking into though.

You asserted that you doubted that this had ever happened...I knew I had seen it happen on more than one occasion! I have even seen a runner not score from third on single to right field ( of course it was the Mariners), crazy hmm

NoOne · 02-08-2020, 07:52 PM

facts, schmacks... i just feel things... a whole lot less stress that way. blissful, you could say.

now, i'm going to go get a spray on tan while wearing some goggles and wrap the one last strand of hair on my head around several times while adding a little spacking and gold coloring.

Call me Mango, a la Mongo from Blazing Saddles, but orange-colored with racoon eyes.

just kidding, i shave my head, lol. i have an inverse yamaka, if i don't... HA!

Dyzalot · 02-08-2020, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Hmm. Are you and I reading the same data here, I wonder? Because it seems like the point is that the situation might be rare but the outcome you took exception to which started this thread, not so much.

I believe somewhere early in this thread I said that "it doesn't happen without some crazy explanation..." If it happens once or twice per year league wide then that's a pretty crazy outcome in my biased opinion.

jbergey22 · 02-08-2020, 10:25 PM

Yeah, I agree. I think the most common outcome of that situation is the runner on 3rd holds, runner on 1st goes to 2nd, and the batter is thrown out. I didnt check that outcome more than the 1 year because there was no way to sort that out individually but in the 1 year(12 situations) it happened 75 percent of the time.

Dyzalot · 02-10-2020, 10:26 PM

Nothing to see here...

One Great Matrix · 02-13-2020, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I believe somewhere early in this thread I said that "it doesn't happen without some crazy explanation..." If it happens once or twice per year league wide then that's a pretty crazy outcome in my biased opinion.

I'm familiar with the frustration but it's not always clear or rarely ever clear where you can put the blame...

No-hitters are about 1 or 2 league-wide, roughly.

But they DO happen.

Dyzalot · 02-13-2020, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Great Matrix

I'm familiar with the frustration but it's not always clear or rarely ever clear where you can put the blame...

No-hitters are about 1 or 2 league-wide, roughly.

But they DO happen.

Sure. And when a no hitter happens there's a news story and a recap that features it. When a gidp happens where the runner holds, the announcers don't even mention it in the PbP and there's nothing in the notes of the game recap to indicate how that happened. All I'm asking is that these rare events have an explanation similar to how live announcers and the sports media would treat it in real life.

Just to give a similar example, there are about four triple plays per year in MLB. I've seen maybe 2 or 3 of those in 10 years of OOTP with over a thousand games observed. But this outcome I've seen several times since the release of OOTP XX with less than 200 games observed. Why is it so much more common in OOTP than the triple play?

02-01-2020, 06:54 PM	#1
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	GIDP, runner holds This is impossible. It never happens. Please fix this for the next release. Attached Images

02-08-2020, 02:07 AM	#7
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	It happened 12 times in MLB last year...Men on 1st and 3rd 0 outs.ground out to the pitcher Results 2x the runner from 3rd scored, out at first 9X the runner stayed at 3rd, runner at first went to 2nd, out at first 1x the runner was forced out at 2nd and the runner didnt score Between 2010 & 2018 in MLB with 1st and 3rd, 0 outs and a ground out/s to the pitcher there were 27 double play groundouts in which the runner on 3rd didnt score 10 times. Between 1995 & 2010 in MLB with 1st and 3rd, 0 outs and a ground out/s to the pitcher there were 79 double play groundouts in which the runner didnt score 31 times. It seems like around 35-40 percent of the time on a ground ball double play to the pitcher with 0 outs the runner at 3rd stands still apparently. Interesting. Source: Baseball Reference Event Finder Last edited by jbergey22; 02-08-2020 at 02:34 AM.

02-08-2020, 10:08 AM	#9
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,937 Blog Entries: 65	Skelton's numbers don't show him to be a roadrunner. With some slick fielders (or smart sneaky guys like Kinsler) I could definitely see this happening. __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. Society's tolerance for violent criminals is dumbfounding. "Alinsky works for me now."

02-08-2020, 07:52 PM	#15
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	facts, schmacks... i just feel things... a whole lot less stress that way. blissful, you could say. now, i'm going to go get a spray on tan while wearing some goggles and wrap the one last strand of hair on my head around several times while adding a little spacking and gold coloring. Call me Mango, a la Mongo from Blazing Saddles, but orange-colored with racoon eyes. just kidding, i shave my head, lol. i have an inverse yamaka, if i don't... HA! Last edited by NoOne; 02-08-2020 at 07:53 PM.

02-10-2020, 10:26 PM	#18
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	Nothing to see here... Last edited by Dyzalot; 02-10-2020 at 10:27 PM.

02-01-2020, 07:01 PM	#2
brich1212 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 41	Well it was a 1-6-3 I could see that happening. Rare. But that'd be the only way thats happening.

02-08-2020, 12:47 AM	#5
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	Most likely scenario here is that pitcher fields the ball, looks the runner back to 3rd and gets the out at first. Double play in this situation should be extremely rare as in slow runners at 1st, 3rd and at the plate.

02-08-2020, 01:03 AM	#6
Dyzalot All Star Starter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,735	In the MLB a runner who held for some reason would get fined by his manager. This is such a fundamental mistake. You can't hold a runner at third twice while turning a double play. Yes I'll give you Little League since kids that young make mistakes but still... Even Puig would be embarrassed if this was him on third.

02-08-2020, 07:29 AM	#8
zappa1 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,873	Never say never!!

02-08-2020, 10:25 PM	#17
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,481	Yeah, I agree. I think the most common outcome of that situation is the runner on 3rd holds, runner on 1st goes to 2nd, and the batter is thrown out. I didnt check that outcome more than the 1 year because there was no way to sort that out individually but in the 1 year(12 situations) it happened 75 percent of the time.