FHM Patch 1.5.20 Now Available

[Mike's Rangers]

No real improvement. Trade engine is not good. Can't hire a Coach in GM Commish mode. Just not fun. Will wait until next patch. Going back to OOTP14 which is top shelf and fun.

[Afino]

if everyone was this critical about OOTP, it never would have gotten past OOTP3 or so. Holy moly.....

[echolodge]

Originally Posted by Afino

if everyone was this critical about OOTP, it never would have gotten past OOTP3 or so. Holy moly.....

Agreed. We as Americans live in an instant gratification culture and slow, incremental progress toward something really good goes against our mindset. But sometimes waiting (I know its been months already) and trusting result something really spectacular.

[Mike's Rangers]

Hardly critical. Just stating facts. Extremely patient with this Game as their OOTP Baseball is exceptional and fun. I respect the difficulty in getting a product to the level of OOTP.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by Afino

if everyone was this critical about OOTP, it never would have gotten past OOTP3 or so. Holy moly.....

I am really sick of this argument. When OOTP3 was released, the company was at a completely different state of development. The failure of this game is due to the fact that they have failed to utilize what they already know about sports sims and have instead chosen to try and reinvent the wheel. This is not some new startup project like it was when OOTP3 was released. It is a company that has put together an incredibly successful franchise with OOTPB and now needs to translate that success to hockey instead of trying to create a NEW engine.

That is the problem, and that is why this game SHOULD be compared to the OOTPB franchise not where it was 10 years ago but where it is today.

[Duranium]

I´ll continue to support this game. I´m pretty sure the devs do their best to polish up this game and despite the bugs i pretty much enjoy the historical trip into the 70´s, and really, it´s buggy but no way unplayable as some guys here think it is.

C´mon, 4 pizzas less over 2 months and it doesn´t hurt my wallet - Instead i help to continue the development of a game i´m looking forward playing many, many years

[PromisedPain]

Originally Posted by Duranium

I´ll continue to support this game. I´m pretty sure the devs do their best to polish up this game and despite the bugs i pretty much enjoy the historical trip into the 70´s, and really, it´s buggy but no way unplayable as some guys here think it is.

C´mon, 4 pizzas less over 2 months and it doesn´t hurt my wallet - Instead i help to continue the development of a game i´m looking forward playing many, many years

But, but but .... I love pizza.

[Duranium]

Originally Posted by PromisedPain

But, but but .... I love pizza.

LMAO, me too....Pizza & managing my 67 Pens

GO PENS !!!

Good times are coming for those patient with FHM updates... or so I firmly believe

[echolodge]

Originally Posted by Garethw87

Good times are coming for those patient with FHM updates... or so I firmly believe

Yup. And having a Riga, Latvia franchise in the NHL Eastern Conference will be no problem. They'll have to watch out for my Dad's Jelgava team in the Central though.

[sprague]

Originally Posted by Garethw87

Good times are coming for those patient with FHM updates... or so I firmly believe

There is nothing to indicate that this game will improve in a week, year or decade. Key elements brought up November 2012 have not been addressed,
while the game sinks into danger zone.

There is still nothing here that indicates a knowledge of the sport, why a team should have a playmaker or checker. Heck its 3 patches later and they
still can't get goals and assists to be somewhat accurate at any level, not to
mention pim's, checking, power play, pk...

It's really disappointing...

[jslmsca]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

It is a company that has put together an incredibly successful franchise with OOTPB and now needs to translate that success to hockey instead of trying to create a NEW engine.

Not to be an apologist, but it's not that simple. First, the simulation engine could not just be ported over since baseball is a completely different game. Football Manager would probably have an easier time of translating a "pitch" into a "rink" and modelling player interactions since a soccer "pass" could be equated into a hockey "pass" but even then, the play area is substantially smaller, the number of players involved different, the interactions and events unique between the sports. That's large enough of a job in itself but now you're asking to take a *baseball* engine and convert it to hockey? It make sense that a new engine needed to be written.

Second, other engines such as finances could possibly be incorporated with tweaks to accommodate different CBAs, salaries, team budgets, etc. The big assumption here is that OOTP was developed in such a way to support a "plug-and-play" system. Did OOTP have the foresight to do this, in anticipation of eventually developing a hockey game? My guess is probably not. As a developer, I know I've wished to make re-use of elements in our products and ended up just having to rewrite them because the architecture did not support a simple "plugin" of existing code. It wouldn't surprise me if it's the same case here.

Why can't SI port Football Manager to the National Football League? It's just not as simple as it sounds.

[Duranium]

Originally Posted by jslmsca

Not to be an apologist, but it's not that simple. First, the simulation engine could not just be ported over since baseball is a completely different game. Football Manager would probably have an easier time of translating a "pitch" into a "rink" and modelling player interactions since a soccer "pass" could be equated into a hockey "pass" but even then, the play area is substantially smaller, the number of players involved different, the interactions and events unique between the sports. That's large enough of a job in itself but now you're asking to take a *baseball* engine and convert it to hockey? It make sense that a new engine needed to be written.

Second, other engines such as finances could possibly be incorporated with tweaks to accommodate different CBAs, salaries, team budgets, etc. The big assumption here is that OOTP was developed in such a way to support a "plug-and-play" system. Did OOTP have the foresight to do this, in anticipation of eventually developing a hockey game? My guess is probably not. As a developer, I know I've wished to make re-use of elements in our products and ended up just having to rewrite them because the architecture did not support a simple "plugin" of existing code. It wouldn't surprise me if it's the same case here.

Why can't SI port Football Manager to the National Football League? It's just not as simple as it sounds.

Great reply *clap, clap*

The problem is, ppl don´t have patience anymore...now,now,now,cheap,cheap,cheap......the curse of our times
Despite it´s flaws i still can´t stress enough that it´s a good game on a bumpy way to a great game.
And for all the whiners - €30 a year is too much to support the only managment game based on our favourite sport (at least for me, sorry, Austrian here - i couldn´t care less about Baseball) ???
As for myself I gave them the €30 in a heartbeat even if the game is buggy atm but as mentioned before with huge upside - exactly that gives them the breathing space to develop it for years to come

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by jslmsca

Not to be an apologist, but it's not that simple. First, the simulation engine could not just be ported over since baseball is a completely different game. Football Manager would probably have an easier time of translating a "pitch" into a "rink" and modelling player interactions since a soccer "pass" could be equated into a hockey "pass" but even then, the play area is substantially smaller, the number of players involved different, the interactions and events unique between the sports. That's large enough of a job in itself but now you're asking to take a *baseball* engine and convert it to hockey? It make sense that a new engine needed to be written.

Second, other engines such as finances could possibly be incorporated with tweaks to accommodate different CBAs, salaries, team budgets, etc. The big assumption here is that OOTP was developed in such a way to support a "plug-and-play" system. Did OOTP have the foresight to do this, in anticipation of eventually developing a hockey game? My guess is probably not. As a developer, I know I've wished to make re-use of elements in our products and ended up just having to rewrite them because the architecture did not support a simple "plugin" of existing code. It wouldn't surprise me if it's the same case here.

Why can't SI port Football Manager to the National Football League? It's just not as simple as it sounds.

But at the same time how ai gm's value their players and a development engine could have easily been ported over because in theory ratings can exist in a vacuum. Free agency and how contracts expire certainly could have and so could a development engine.

And let's not forget about the UI which in my opinion is SERIOUSLY lacking as compared to OOTPB. Or even just the star system.... Reports... The way stat pages appear...

There is A LOT that could have been used from the start. The ingame engine etc i completely agree with you. But financials contracts trading UI trading.. Those are all things that could apply.

[AlpineSK]

Originally Posted by Duranium

Great reply *clap, clap*

The problem is, ppl don´t have patience anymore...now,now,now,cheap,cheap,cheap......the curse of our times
Despite it´s flaws i still can´t stress enough that it´s a good game on a bumpy way to a great game.
And for all the whiners - €30 a year is too much to support the only managment game based on our favourite sport (at least for me, sorry, Austrian here - i couldn´t care less about Baseball) ???
As for myself I gave them the €30 in a heartbeat even if the game is buggy atm but as mentioned before with huge upside - exactly that gives them the breathing space to develop it for years to come

But this isn't a kick start project. We aren't throwing money blindly at a company for development. We are buying a product. As for the concept of now now now the game was officially in beta for a considerable amount of time. Explain to people who reported bugs early in development who are still seeing those same bugs today that they're growing impatient.

[jslmsca]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

But at the same time how ai gm's value their players and a development engine could have easily been ported over because in theory ratings can exist in a vacuum. Free agency and how contracts expire certainly could have and so could a development engine.

This is what I mentioned in my original reply. In theory, yes, things that are common between sports could theoretically be ported but the assumption is that the software's architecture/infrastructure was in place to support it. Assuming it wasn't, that requires a rewrite.

[Ekcut]

I've got my money's worth.

[fredreed]

It's not doing you or any of us to complain about this product because I do believe that this hockey sim will be very good once It's completely patched. Yes It has been quite a long time and It's no secret that this game has been in Beta for a very long time but Is It fair to us to keep complaining to the developers all the time about the bugs in the game still no. The way I look at it is at least they communicate to everyone and are at least trying to solve these nagging bugs. At least If there's a problem with a patch they release a new patch to replace the previous one which is something that most developers wouldn't do. They are making an effort at making this game better and more enjoyable to play just be patient and please be more understandable to them all. They are a very small team here that has to do a lot work on a game.

[bob]

sorry for my english because I'm french. so I'll try to be as clear as possible. generally in each patch in their post, the team mentioned what was the next thing on which they attack for developement. someone has an idea?

[StrikeFour]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

But this isn't a kick start project. We aren't throwing money blindly at a company for development. We are buying a product. As for the concept of now now now the game was officially in beta for a considerable amount of time. Explain to people who reported bugs early in development who are still seeing those same bugs today that they're growing impatient.

Let me jump in here. How many of those people are using saves from previous patches? Every new release letter clearly states that there could be issues if using saves from prior builds. Meaning; these issues, or bugs, could quite possibly be fixed if users where actually reading the the release notes.