Draft pool low quality of players?

[Jythier]

Originally Posted by Rain King

So, this is a bit concerning. Here are the results after simming for 20 years.

~Snip~

Now, I did these use the OSA scouts and I'm thinking I probably should have turned scouting off and gone with pure ratings, but I shouldn't think that would make a huge difference, but the draft is relatively much weaker 20 years later than on the initial year.

Are you sure that isn't that the organizations are all BETTER than they were 20 years earlier? And the draft class is much the same?

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Rain King

So, this is a bit concerning. Here are the results after simming for 20 years.





ML



5.0: 0

4.5: 1

4.0: 2

3.5: 5

3.0: 7

2.5: 46

2.0: 137

1.5: 305

1.0: 160

0.5: 267





AAA



5.0: 17

4.5: 12

4.0: 28

3.5: 25

3.0: 31

2.5: 73

2.0: 138

1.5: 228

1.0: 94

0.5: 284





AA



5.0: 25

4.5: 26

4.0: 39

3.5: 32

3.0: 41

2.5: 168

2.0: 314

1.5: 212

1.0: 29

0.5: 44





Now, I did these use the OSA scouts and I'm thinking I probably should have turned scouting off and gone with pure ratings, but I shouldn't think that would make a huge difference, but the draft is relatively much weaker 20 years later than on the initial year.

How does the overall league look in talent?

[Subby]

[snipped]

[Thundercrack]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

It's not cheating if you're playing with yourself.

keep telling my wife that.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Jythier

Are you sure that isn't that the organizations are all BETTER than they were 20 years earlier? And the draft class is much the same?

Well, right, I assume that is probably the case but that is concerning to me. The league shouldn't be getting "better" over the years from an overall talent standpoint. There should be slight fluctuations, sure, but my results seem somewhat extreme to me.

[HolyCow98]

I wouldn't go by stars.....go by there actual ability. If its working as it should, you should still see guys (on the 1-10 scale) that are similar to what you would expect from 4 and 5 star players. At least in my few leagues of varying sizes where I simmed out 30 to 50 seasons I do.

[Subby]

[snipped]

[Jythier]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Well, right, I assume that is probably the case but that is concerning to me. The league shouldn't be getting "better" over the years from an overall talent standpoint. There should be slight fluctuations, sure, but my results seem somewhat extreme to me.

Of course it should. You created a league with fictional players, and the best of those go on the teams.

That same level of talent is brought in each year. The bottom players leave the league. The top players stay. The league gets better.

Eventually, the best players are retiring at a rate equal to the influx of new talent and the league levels off.

I think you should sim another 20 years and compare a draft class after 20 years to a draft class after 40 years.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by HolyCow98

I wouldn't go by stars.....go by there actual ability. If its working as it should, you should still see guys (on the 1-10 scale) that are similar to what you would expect from 4 and 5 star players. At least in my few leagues of varying sizes where I simmed out 30 to 50 seasons I do.

Well, I'm trying to look at a couple of things here I guess. Some of the complaints in this thread are the relatively low ratings of players in the draft. I, personally, thought that the spread in the initial class was pretty good and that dropping down the relative level a couple of times during the draft should do a pretty decent job of differentiating players as you go into the later rounds. However, if the leagues are getting relatively better over the years (for whatever reason) compared to the initial draft classes that makes that much harder I think.

[Doc_Brown]

[snipped]

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Jythier

Of course it should. You created a league with fictional players, and the best of those go on the teams.

That same level of talent is brought in each year. The bottom players leave the league. The top players stay. The league gets better.

Eventually, the best players are retiring at a rate equal to the influx of new talent and the league levels off.

I think you should sim another 20 years and compare a draft class after 20 years to a draft class after 40 years.

Why wouldn't the default setup start with the bolded portion already optimized?

I can do 20 more years, but it is gonna take some time on my old CPU

[Jythier]

Originally Posted by Rain King

Why wouldn't the default setup start with the bolded portion already optimized?

I can do 20 more years, but it is gonna take some time on my old CPU

That's a great question!

Maybe it does and I'm off base.

I mean, you've only got like... 9 years of OOTP experience that I don't have.

But I just did my first amateur draft for a new league and I drafted talent that, at their current level, could compete in AAA. The next year they were in the majors. Why? Because everyone in the league SUCKS! :P

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by Jythier

That's a great question!

Maybe it does and I'm off base.

I mean, you've only got like... 9 years of OOTP experience that I don't have.

But I just did my first amateur draft for a new league and I drafted talent that, at their current level, could compete in AAA. The next year they were in the majors. Why? Because everyone in the league SUCKS! :P

Ha, I had a lot of experience with the older versions...probably not nearly as much with the last few.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by Jythier

Of course it should. You created a league with fictional players, and the best of those go on the teams.

That same level of talent is brought in each year. The bottom players leave the league. The top players stay. The league gets better.

Eventually, the best players are retiring at a rate equal to the influx of new talent and the league levels off.

I think you should sim another 20 years and compare a draft class after 20 years to a draft class after 40 years.

Originally Posted by Rain King

Why wouldn't the default setup start with the bolded portion already optimized?

I think this is the crux of the issue; the OP is worried that the best players are retiring while the draft is made up of 80% 1 star potential players (and the FOBL puts it another was because they are worried that there are too few star potential players, and everyone is rated a 5/5/5/5/5 - aka 1 star player).

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by jaysdailydose

Lots of people know what they are talking about. You guys are just trying to be brutally offensive.

In general, FOBLers are pretty content with existing in our own corner of the world. We rely on OOTP to do what we do, but we don't feel the need to interact with the OOTP community on a daily basis. When we do, it's usually someone like Shaw looking for some honest guidance and rational discussion about a game issue or a utility like StatsLab or OOTPOU.

The FOBL (and its sister FOF league FOFL) is a tightly-knit bunch, the core of which has been together for...15 years? More? It predates the league itself. Overall it's actually a fairly mature, professional, intelligent bunch. We're also fiercely loyal, and we aren't afraid to circle the wagons and do a little verbal sparring when one of our members has been condescended to or had his issues dismissed (and if you think the ones who showed up here are rough, we have a couple of members in reserve...)

So when it's suggested that a league that we've been running under our own structure - albeit a fairly idiosyncratic one - should just up and change after fourteen calendar years and fifty seasons of gameplay dating back to OOTP3 because others know what's better for us than we do, yeah, we get a little defensive about it.

[Thundercrack]

[snipped]

[HolyCow98]

If you are talking fictional league....I'm not always in love with the initial quality of the players the game starts off with. I play out my games...and what usually happens is I play like the first month or so....regardless if I'm doing great...or in the cellar....I end up resigning and simming out at least 5 and 20 seasons before I create a new GM/Manager and take a team. Then I take a team and I only GM for 5 or so more seasons to give myself time to get familiar with my players in the system....than I take over the team and play out the games (personal preference). By that time the league as a while has like 25 or 30 years of history.

You could adjust the player creation modifiers for the initial year but I always fear (without testing) that later down the road it will cause problems when the initial group of players and prospects start retiring and the 2nd generation becomes the population of the league.

[kq76]

You guys just made me waste a number of hours (4? I'm not sure) on one of my few days off going through this garbage heap of a thread. As you can imagine, I'm not at all happy about that.

Next time you start feeling the need to get offensive or defensive, please ask yourself, "will my post be productive, will it make things better in any way?". If the answer is, "no, if anything it'll probably only make things worse", then please, don't post it! Instead, give it some time, chill out, and maybe think of a way to make things better. There were people in this thread, on both sides of the argument, who did try to do that and I thank them, but there were not enough. We all want a better game and if we occasionally try to help out the other guy in his plight then maybe the next time when the shoe is on the other foot he'll try to help us. Let's work together and for each other, not against.