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Old 10-08-2017, 09:06 PM   #1
Ferrisrox
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Something Wrong With "AI" Coaches

I took over the Montreal Canadiens and elected to be just the general manager, having the AI handle the coaching requirements.

I dealt a prospect and a first rounder to the Maple Leafs to acquire Nazem Kadri to serve as my first line centre.

Despite being the highest rated centre on my roster, the AI coach slotted him in his as my fourth line centre and gave him eight minutes of ice time a game.

Stranger yet, my first line centre was Mike McCarron who rated one and a half stars. The AI coach also improbably used Max Pacioretty on the third line.

After 11 games in which McCarron posted zero goals and zero assists, he was sent to the minors when I clicked Have AI Set roster following injury. Even after this transaction, Kadri remained on the fourth line. Not long after, McCarron was back up on the big team and once again slotted into the first line.

I was unable to fire my idiotic coach (despite the team falling to nine games under .500 because of his baffling deployment of our players) and finally I just resigned out of frustration.

I took over the rebuilding New Jersey Devils and was amazed to find two 1.5 star players on their first line and Taylor Hall - much like Nazem Kadri before him, stuck on the fourth line, again receiving limited ice time.

What the hell is going on here?

Last edited by Ferrisrox; 10-08-2017 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 10-08-2017, 09:21 PM   #2
Ferrisrox
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So I just went back to look at the Canadiens roster since I left.

Nazem Kadri, the highest rated centre, at 4.5, remains on the fourth line getting 11 minutes a game. Max Pacioretty, by far the teams best winger, remains on the third line and is now logging five minutes less per game than he received last season when he wasn't being used by an "AI" coach.

Perhaps most baffling? Brendan Gallagher, a right winger is now being used as the teams first line centre.

What is going on here? This is seriously broken.
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Old 10-08-2017, 09:35 PM   #3
Cameronmu
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Im facing this same issue. I initially elected myself as the HC and GM of Toronto, then after I figured my players would perform better under another coach I hired back Babcock. I have Nylander and Marner, the 2 best wingers on the team playing 4th line C and RW getting 8 minutes a game. it is stunting their development and after 2 season both are now sitting at 3 star rating and 3.5 potential.

I consistently try and release Babcock due to the team consistently losing with Josh Leivo and Komarov playing on Matthews wings, but the owner says he doesn't see a reason to release Babcock, even when we finished last in the league with 56 points.

This is a bug that needs to be fixed asap.
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Old 10-08-2017, 10:42 PM   #4
Savoie45
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I've noticed that the tactics you use tend to dictate how and where a player is used.
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Old 10-08-2017, 11:20 PM   #5
Ferrisrox
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Originally Posted by Savoie45 View Post
I've noticed that the tactics you use tend to dictate how and where a player is used.
You're missing the point.

We're not using the tactics, we're the General Manager. The AI coaches are using the tactics and I've looked across the board and it exists on every team I've looked at. Major star players are literally scattered throughout the fourth lines on every team I looked at it.

This is a game-breaking bug. Even if I took over the coaching - which I have zero interest in doing because I want to just be the GM - the game is still screwed because team after team after team has AHL one and a half star slugs on their first line logging 20+ minutes a game and star players are on the fourth lines. I just checked Colorado, Matt Duchene is the fourth line player and is averaging less than nine minutes a game on the season.

How did this ever get best beta testing?

Is it possible to get my money back?
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Old 10-09-2017, 12:46 AM   #6
BrettC
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I think this bug has been mentioned before. I thought it had been fixed in the last update, maybe it wasn't and it's in the next one.

Pretty sure they are aware of it though.
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Old 10-09-2017, 01:07 AM   #7
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I know the issue; there are two specific tactical roles that have a problem with the way the AI assesses player suitability for them, and it's pushing tough guys with particular ratings ahead of more talented players who should be in those lineup spots. There may also be an issue with player position ratings not having enough of an effect on setting the lineup spots, but we're still investigating that. Fixing the role data, which will happen in the first update, will, however, correct the problems with the 1.5-star type guys getting first or second-line roles.

In the meantime, it's not going to affect every team; it requires specific combinations of players, coaches, and tactic choices. The vast majority of good players won't be affected; I've run many test games that make that clear - the first one I opened to check the Montreal stats has Pacioretty, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Byron, Plekanec, and Drouin as the top 6 in icetime over the course of the season, so it won't even happen consistently with the same team and lineup.

That isn't to say I'm happy that the problem exists; we'll be fixing it as quickly as possible. But it won't affect most people playing the game. In the meantime, if you run into this and want to work around it, avoid dressing players like McCarron, with high bravery, strength, and particularly fighting ratings; that won't completely avoid all the effects, but it'll prevent the worst of them.
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Old 10-09-2017, 08:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
I know the issue; there are two specific tactical roles that have a problem with the way the AI assesses player suitability for them, and it's pushing tough guys with particular ratings ahead of more talented players who should be in those lineup spots. There may also be an issue with player position ratings not having enough of an effect on setting the lineup spots, but we're still investigating that. Fixing the role data, which will happen in the first update, will, however, correct the problems with the 1.5-star type guys getting first or second-line roles.

In the meantime, it's not going to affect every team; it requires specific combinations of players, coaches, and tactic choices. The vast majority of good players won't be affected; I've run many test games that make that clear - the first one I opened to check the Montreal stats has Pacioretty, Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Byron, Plekanec, and Drouin as the top 6 in icetime over the course of the season, so it won't even happen consistently with the same team and lineup.

That isn't to say I'm happy that the problem exists; we'll be fixing it as quickly as possible. But it won't affect most people playing the game. In the meantime, if you run into this and want to work around it, avoid dressing players like McCarron, with high bravery, strength, and particularly fighting ratings; that won't completely avoid all the effects, but it'll prevent the worst of them.
Thanks a lot for making that clear. Really appreciate the hard work that's put in by the team to improve this already great game.
Will the fix work for existing games as well, or do we have to start up a new game? I would love to fire up a historical game now -will wait with the modern game till after the roster update- but am not sure if the lines fix will work for an existing game. Otherwise I will wait until the next patch.

Last edited by GDawg; 10-09-2017 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 10-09-2017, 09:12 AM   #9
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I think it will - I don't think the problem data is stored at the savegame level, so the updated logic should get applied the first time the AI evaluates the lineup.
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Old 10-09-2017, 04:43 PM   #10
Ferrisrox
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I think it will - I don't think the problem data is stored at the savegame level, so the updated logic should get applied the first time the AI evaluates the lineup.
So there is no way to get your money back?

I bought this to be a GM simulator like the previous versions of the game. Unless you want to play as a coach as well, this absolutely does not work as a GM simulator.

The game not working is a big disappointment, but your response is even more of a letdown. The fix is that I become the coach (which i don't want to do) and then scratch the players the team stupidly puts on the first line? I truly cannot believe that you actually offered that as a solution. That's a ****ing joke.

Can I get a refund?

Last edited by Ferrisrox; 10-09-2017 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 10-09-2017, 04:57 PM   #11
Alessandro
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Originally Posted by Ferrisrox View Post
So there is no way to get your money back?

I bought this to be a GM simulator like the previous versions of the game. Unless you want to play as a coach as well, this absolutely does not work as a GM simulator.

The game not working is a big disappointment, but your response is even more of a letdown. The fix is that I become the coach (which i don't want to do) and then scratch the players the team stupidly puts on the first line? I truly cannot believe that you actually offered that as a solution. That's a ****ing joke.

Can I get a refund?
Now, of course, you can ask for a refund and be disappointed, but let's be honest, post #7 by Jeff, "That isn't to say I'm happy that the problem exists; we'll be fixing it as quickly as possible."
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Old 10-09-2017, 06:33 PM   #12
JeffR
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Originally Posted by Ferrisrox View Post
So there is no way to get your money back?

I bought this to be a GM simulator like the previous versions of the game. Unless you want to play as a coach as well, this absolutely does not work as a GM simulator.

The game not working is a big disappointment, but your response is even more of a letdown. The fix is that I become the coach (which i don't want to do) and then scratch the players the team stupidly puts on the first line? I truly cannot believe that you actually offered that as a solution. That's a ****ing joke.

Can I get a refund?
I'm not sure how you inferred from my comment that you can't get your money back. Depending on where you purchased it, either submit a support ticket with the request, or use Steam's refund option, and you'll be refunded.
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Old 10-09-2017, 07:27 PM   #13
BrettC
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I love how buddy is insistent on getting a refund because the game is "broken" yet completely ignoring the fact that it was said it's going to be fixed and was also given a temporary way to get around it as best he can.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:51 PM   #14
artlan
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With a game this complex, bugs like these are expected. Instead of crying foul and asking for a refund for a minor issue, work with the developer to identify and fix these issues.

JeffR and the rest of the team are absolutely superb! I love this game and cannot wait to see it continued being developed.
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:57 PM   #15
Savoie45
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I can't really fault him, though I would personally hold out for an update, but I'm a hockey nut ��
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Old 10-10-2017, 12:05 AM   #16
Ferrisrox
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I love how buddy is insistent on getting a refund because the game is "broken" yet completely ignoring the fact that it was said it's going to be fixed and was also given a temporary way to get around it as best he can.
That temporary way to get around it involves me being the coach of the team, so, no, that is not a solution at all.

The most recent patch also does nothing to fix this problem as the Canadiens current fourth line features Jonathan Drouin and Alexander Galchenyuk so I'm curious why in Jeff's testing they were both top six in ice time because in my game, they are both slotted in for eight minutes a game and Galchenyuk doesn't appear on the Canadiens first or second team power play.

Since the patch, the problem seems better - Cory Perry is no longer a fourth liner and neither is Matt Duchene, but it still crops up on several teams. The Islanders use Jordan Eberle on the fourth line and Jason Chimera on the first. Mike Hoffman is a fourth liner for Ottawa, Connor Sheary is a fourth liner and a centre while guys like Reaves, McKegg and Wilson play ahead of him, the Sharks are using Joe Thornton as their fourth line centre and I can't check the Washington Capitals lines because the game won't let me scroll down past Vegas.
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:23 PM   #17
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This is the exact same reason I stopped playing FHM3 and highly doubt I'll buy the new one. The head coach makes decisions based on no logic whatsoever. Highly talented prospects getting played on the 4th line, backup goalies playing too much and ending up getting the Vezina and so on and so on.
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